Blumie

Bienvenue � FT, ClipperinSFO!

LACouple

Actually my dear, our comment was reflecting on the following AA corporate response and not so much the (hopefully) rogue flight crew:

"Tim Wagner, a spokesman for American, said that the stewardess�s injunction to the men was reasonable, and would have been made whether the couple was gay or straight. �Our passengers need to recognize that they are in an environment with all ages, backgrounds, creeds, and races. We have an obligation to make as many of them feel as comfortable as possible,� he said.


Cheers


LACouple

brp

Ok, that's hogwash. You're taking the atrocious actions of one employee (I agree that that purser was not displaying homophobia, but was just closing ranks to protect a co-worker), and attributing it to the whole company. I would imagine that there are hompphobic people in France as well, and one could work on a plane and act the same way. Countering a bigoted attitude with another doesn't make for a good argument, IMO.

(And, I have no difficulty in believing that a Texas-based company would have institutionalized homophobia, but I think the classification of all domestic as unsophisticated is highly inaccurate).

Cheers.

Boddingtons

I'd have made them divert the plane!

"Well go on then, diverty the ''bleepin'' plane!"

I'd have blown my top having been subjected to threats such as those by the crew.

ClipperinSFO

Sadly, it's not hogwash.

The cultural norms for domestic US routes (behavior, dress, dietary consumption patterns, ethnic make-up etc are different for US domestic routes than they are for international routes, even to/from the US. New York to Paris is an extreme on one end, Dallas to Phoenix perhaps on the other. AA may have differently trained domestic vs international trained FAs but the origins of both groups are the same: the hiring practices of AA's HQ, which since the mid seventies, has been located in Dallas, Texas.

The language expressed by AA corprorate:

�Our passengers need to recognize that they are in an environment with all ages, backgrounds, creeds, and races. We have an obligation to make as many of them feel as comfortable as possible,�

basically says to me that they will be providing training and enforcing standards of behavior for the majority of their customer base, which is domestic US-based. The cultural norms of the New York - Paris route are not on a par with the majority of the AA route system, hence the culture clash we see written up in the New Yorker article.

brp

OK, I'll agree with you for most of America, then, but not all of it . Certainly I agree about Texas. But I would not agree with this characterization of, say, San Francisco, or New York, or even Boston (all places I've lived, with a very liberal, and closer to the international, bent). So, for AA- I'll agree, considering where they're based. I'll still take exception to the domestic characterization, though.

(And, since this is specifically about American, I'll gladly concede on this issue )

Cheers.

divemaster

They certainly didn't attempt to stop a couple who were all over each other in the back of F on a LGA/DFW flight yesterday. I really wanted to lean over and say "get a room".

I'm far from a prude, but this was just plain gross.

JDiver

IMO there's a major difference between an inappropriate display of affection (groping, as opposed to touching; prolonged mouth-to-mouth exchanges of various and sundry items, etc. - ask divemaster!) vs. normal, every day displays of affection, such as hand-holding, a brief touch of lips, etc. regardless of gender. If the FA and Purser had behaved as described (as described, since that's all we really have here,) on, say, the SFO-LAX AA shuttle, they and AA (as employer) could have been dinged under California's Fair Employment and Housing Act, which prohibits discrimination, including harassment, based on a number of protected characteristics, including sexual orientation. (But by the same token would prhibit the inappropiate displays as "sexually offensive.")

If the passengers in the article were merely touching and exchanging brief pecks, I guess we're in trouble - Lady JDiver and I have been known to engage in exactly these kinds of informal displays of affection or endearment, even on transatlantic flights. And I am quite sure someone feels they are entirely inappropriate behaviors among sexagenarians and older. (SEXagenarians?!?! ) If I were allowed sharp objects, I'd be happy topunch any such person's TS card. Or, if it were an FA, file an age discrimination complaint with AA.

AA, your training needs include customer service and diversity.

aaupgrade

Print copies of this article for future reference. And then ask the FA to take care of it, since "Tim Wagner, a spokesman for American, said that the stewardess�s injunction to the men was reasonable, and would have been made whether the couple was gay or straight.". If the FA objects then ask to speak with the purser. Make the same request of the purser while handing him/her a copy of the article.

FWIW, I'm printing copies right now.

Fraser

How ridiculous

ijgordon

OK, thanks for the clarification, the originally referenced post was not clear. Now I am disturbed.

shadesofgrey1x

That is very helpful to know. So I guess since I am traveling MIA-SFO this weekend to a major Leather Fetish event and a majority of the PAX are as well. I should request a dominatrix for my FA.

Oh I am sorry, I just realized we already get that on AA flights as a standard service.

sluggoaafa

Of course we are only getting one side of the situation here....from a reporter who probably like any other reporter exagerates from what did or didn't really happen.

We don't know what happened onboard this flight. Just like someone else said, they could have been full fledged fondling each other and kissing each others tonsels, yet, this reporter only saw them pecking each others cheeks. Was this reporter watching these two love birds the entire flight? Was this reporter getting a good eye full and decided to tone down what really was happening? we don't know because we're only hearing one side of this story.

For the most part, Flight Crews truly don't care what goes on between two lovers. Yet, when any passenger complains about what is happening, we do have to step in and stop the behaviour. One thing that people do seem to forget, Once you step onboard the aircraft, you are governed by US Laws and Regulations. It doesn't matter if you are in DFW, JFK, SFO, or even LHR or CDG, once onboard that aircraft, you are under US Federal Law. The California's Fair Employment and Housing Act would have no impact on this issue since it is governed by FARs, not CA, or TX, or any other states laws. (The liquor license is different hence not serving alcohol on the ground on certain days)


ALL AA employees are required to go through Value of Respect training which entail Diversity, discrimination, and other issues. For this crew to say something, again, this couple really must have been into each other...more so than usual.

If you feel that printing off articles from magazines is going to help a situation, go for it, all the Flight Attendants are going to do is look at you funny and think you're weird.

For the crew to say something to this couple, it is pretty obvious that they did a lot more than what is said in the article.

AEpilot76

How effective do you really think the Value of Respect was? Most of my recurrent class just sat there and laughed. Unfortunately, the ones who are close minded will continue to remain that way, and a 15 minute powerpoint presentation is not going to change that. Do I like it, no, is it reality, yes

ijgordon

They usually do that anyway, so what's the harm?