How can we be helpful to newbies?
Aug 12, 2006, 8:53 pm
#46
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Plat (2MM), Hertz 5 star
Posts: 598
Originally Posted by techgirl
Just as a general comment as one of the five AA mods. We DO appreciate and listen to the feedback here. There have been some good points made both here and in the Only Randy Petersen thread.
I'll let Randy address the comments to him in his thread when he returns from vacation this week. You were not able to post there as the senior moderators for FT closed that thread after it exceeded several pages as they felt the relevant points to Randy had been made. I know he often does several hours of research on an issue before commenting and I've already sent him a direct to this thread as well.
As far as what the mods ARE doing. We ARE working on a FAQ for this forum. It will take time to get together so do bear with us. One of our team has volunteered to work on that and I know he has also talked to a few AA regulars about helping get content that is relevant to that. (It WILL take some time - we all have regular paid full-time jobs in addition to volunteering on FT and as well, FT *has* been a lot busier than normal this week!)
We are also continuing to follow the Guidelines and Rules for FT which is the governing document for all FT moderators in all forums. While each forum has its own posting style, we are tasked with trying to apply a relatively consistent standard across all forums - but more important, to develop a consistent standard (*within* these guidelines) for the AA forum. The five of us have been working together to do that so that might explain a sense of additional moderator presence lately as we work to make this consistent across AA.
I hope that answers a couple of questions that have come up. While its off-topic/against the Guidelines to discuss specific moderation actions (which can include member suspensions regardless of whether or not they occur in the AA forum), I think some transparency is important and I'm always happy to answer general questions about why/how we do what we do. Ultimately our goal is to make the AA forum a smooth and consistent place for posters of ALL experience levels to post. While the forum cannot be all things to all people, we'll continue to do what we need to do to make it useful to the majority.
I'll let Randy address the comments to him in his thread when he returns from vacation this week. You were not able to post there as the senior moderators for FT closed that thread after it exceeded several pages as they felt the relevant points to Randy had been made. I know he often does several hours of research on an issue before commenting and I've already sent him a direct to this thread as well.
As far as what the mods ARE doing. We ARE working on a FAQ for this forum. It will take time to get together so do bear with us. One of our team has volunteered to work on that and I know he has also talked to a few AA regulars about helping get content that is relevant to that. (It WILL take some time - we all have regular paid full-time jobs in addition to volunteering on FT and as well, FT *has* been a lot busier than normal this week!)
We are also continuing to follow the Guidelines and Rules for FT which is the governing document for all FT moderators in all forums. While each forum has its own posting style, we are tasked with trying to apply a relatively consistent standard across all forums - but more important, to develop a consistent standard (*within* these guidelines) for the AA forum. The five of us have been working together to do that so that might explain a sense of additional moderator presence lately as we work to make this consistent across AA.
I hope that answers a couple of questions that have come up. While its off-topic/against the Guidelines to discuss specific moderation actions (which can include member suspensions regardless of whether or not they occur in the AA forum), I think some transparency is important and I'm always happy to answer general questions about why/how we do what we do. Ultimately our goal is to make the AA forum a smooth and consistent place for posters of ALL experience levels to post. While the forum cannot be all things to all people, we'll continue to do what we need to do to make it useful to the majority.
The newbie problem here is WAYYYY overblown. In fact, there is really not a newbie problem at all. This is a natural occurrence as the membership increases.
It is REALLY bad on car oriented forums as each model launches with mostly enthusiasts on the forum, and then devolves into neewbie-ville after 3-4 years as the 2nd and 3rd set of owners buy the cars, with the associated change in socio-economic strata.
An FAQ is great, but let's not consider amputation when a band-aid will probably suffice
In fact - here is a VERY humorous look at this very issue. Which kind of "Flame Warrior" do we recognize on FT?
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm
Aug 12, 2006, 9:24 pm
#47
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MCO Concourse A
Programs: DL Diamond / Delta 360 / HHonors Diamond. FORMER: AAdvantage EXP, Loews YouFirst Platinum, A+ Elite
Posts: 185
Why FAQ when you can Wiki?
Aug 12, 2006, 9:26 pm
#48
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Plat (2MM), Hertz 5 star
Posts: 598
Originally Posted by Varian
Why FAQ when you can Wiki?
Aug 12, 2006, 9:28 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fort Worth TX
Programs: Earned status with AA, DL, SPG, HH, Hyatt, Marriott, Seabourn, NCL, National, Hertz...I miss my bed!
Posts: 10,927
Originally Posted by Varian
Why FAQ when you can Wiki?
Aug 12, 2006, 10:38 pm
#50
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,110
Originally Posted by DallasAudiGuy
Very interesting and well thought out!
Forums evolve - there is a great article on this, but I can't seem to find it. IN the mean time -here is an excellent article that does address a few points
http://www.stevepavlina.com/articles...orum-usage.htm
Forums evolve - there is a great article on this, but I can't seem to find it. IN the mean time -here is an excellent article that does address a few points
http://www.stevepavlina.com/articles...orum-usage.htm
By the way, the link you included was really great! Here is my favorite quote from the article (among many):
"At the time of this writing, my feeling is that ongoing daily participation in any single forum for more than a few months is almost invariably unproductive. Eventually the initial benefits like gaining knowledge and making new contacts produce diminishing returns. And then the negative effects like forum addiction set in."
Aah, now I know what my FT problem is!
Aug 12, 2006, 11:15 pm
#51
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA 1K, AA 2MM, Bonvoy LT Plt, Mets fan
Posts: 5,073
I don't know if the software supports these possibilities, but what if:
-- a new user had to "lurk" for 48 hours, and maybe do some online tutorial re the search function and stickies, before being allowed to post
-- the first post to each individual forum had to be cleared by a mod before going "live"; if the topic was covered by a FAQ/sticky, the mod could PM/email a link and the post wouldn't count.
-- anyone who is a newbie (maybe < 100 posts or < 30 days) has a banner with links to a "how to search" and "FT netiquette"
The questions, IMHO, include what kind of a community should each forum be - and whether that decision is made by Randy as owner of FT or by the community; if a community decision, is it one that evolves over time? How does the decision get made, and implemented?
-- a new user had to "lurk" for 48 hours, and maybe do some online tutorial re the search function and stickies, before being allowed to post
-- the first post to each individual forum had to be cleared by a mod before going "live"; if the topic was covered by a FAQ/sticky, the mod could PM/email a link and the post wouldn't count.
-- anyone who is a newbie (maybe < 100 posts or < 30 days) has a banner with links to a "how to search" and "FT netiquette"
The questions, IMHO, include what kind of a community should each forum be - and whether that decision is made by Randy as owner of FT or by the community; if a community decision, is it one that evolves over time? How does the decision get made, and implemented?
Aug 13, 2006, 9:17 am
#52
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NJ
Programs: UA LTG, AA LTG, Bonvoy LTP, IHG Plat, LHW Sterling
Posts: 2,405
Originally Posted by gemac
I guess I respectfully disagree.
3. Even though this does create a new searchable thread with the answer to the cello question, there are already a hundred searchable threads with that answer, so having a new one doesn't really add anything. The answer doesn't change, but the newbie doesn't search.
3. Even though this does create a new searchable thread with the answer to the cello question, there are already a hundred searchable threads with that answer, so having a new one doesn't really add anything. The answer doesn't change, but the newbie doesn't search.
Aug 13, 2006, 10:32 am
#53
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: HY
Programs: AA-EXP (3.3MM), AAirpass, SQ-PPS Solitaire, DL-PM (.777MM), SPG-Plat, HH-D
Posts: 2,307
perhpas stop calling them newbies. Given that in my case for example, some of you might call me a "newbie". Reality is that I fly and flew much more than most of you FT freaks and as far as AA is concenred I am valued to a much greater degree than most of you. (emphasis on most as I know for a fact there a folks who log in double my miles, not sure about rev generation though). OTH @ FT I have found some of you the be very helpful and truthfully dedicated to this forum (for whatever reason) and aiding fello AAers... hats off. Again, fact is that newbies should be respectful of anyone on FT, just as people who signed up on FT earlier than a newbie should. (the real difference between a newbie and a veteran is the month and year they signed up on FT... isnt it?). I use FT to my AAdvantage (corny, thanks FT) and have been able to show something for it... call me a newbie and flame me all day long... sounds good to me, i LOVE IT 
Aug 13, 2006, 11:50 am
#54
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Plat (2MM), Hertz 5 star
Posts: 598
Originally Posted by psyflyer
perhpas stop calling them newbies. Given that in my case for example, some of you might call me a "newbie". Reality is that I fly and flew much more than most of you FT freaks and as far as AA is concenred I am valued to a much greater degree than most of you. (emphasis on most as I know for a fact there a folks who log in double my miles, not sure about rev generation though). OTH @ FT I have found some of you the be very helpful and truthfully dedicated to this forum (for whatever reason) and aiding fello AAers... hats off. Again, fact is that newbies should be respectful of anyone on FT, just as people who signed up on FT earlier than a newbie should. (the real difference between a newbie and a veteran is the month and year they signed up on FT... isnt it?). I use FT to my AAdvantage (corny, thanks FT) and have been able to show something for it... call me a newbie and flame me all day long... sounds good to me, i LOVE IT
Aug 14, 2006, 7:33 am
#55
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Boston; DC
Programs: AA EXP/2mm; UA 1k;
Posts: 673
Why not develop the Wiki Page more?
I think a lot of everybody's time would be saved if a) A permanent sticky on the first page gave a link to the AA Wiki page hosted here on flyertalk, and b) Folks with knowledge about AA would take a little bit of time to edit hte Wiki page.
The wiki page has a few big advantages that the forum doesn't:
1) Anyone can edit it (though I suppose this could be a shortcoming as well)
2) It comes together as one comprehensive document, rather than a 15-page thread that one has to scroll through / jump to next page, etc.
3) With search features on flyertalk down (or at least, I always get "search using google" when I try to "search tihs forum), using "Control-F" to search the Wiki would be very useful.
4) Relevant discussions from the forum could be linked to from the Wiki page, for things that aren't cut-and-dried.
But the main benefit would just be the efficiency: someone new ot the forum could simply read up on all th emajor issues / features of AA on one page.
FYI, the Wiki page is here. http://www.flyertalk.com/wiki/index....rican_Airlines
I've done a little work on it (as I see have others), but there is a lot more to do.
The wiki page has a few big advantages that the forum doesn't:
1) Anyone can edit it (though I suppose this could be a shortcoming as well)
2) It comes together as one comprehensive document, rather than a 15-page thread that one has to scroll through / jump to next page, etc.
3) With search features on flyertalk down (or at least, I always get "search using google" when I try to "search tihs forum), using "Control-F" to search the Wiki would be very useful.
4) Relevant discussions from the forum could be linked to from the Wiki page, for things that aren't cut-and-dried.
But the main benefit would just be the efficiency: someone new ot the forum could simply read up on all th emajor issues / features of AA on one page.
FYI, the Wiki page is here. http://www.flyertalk.com/wiki/index....rican_Airlines
I've done a little work on it (as I see have others), but there is a lot more to do.