Policy on AA for Removing me from Flight (30 Minutes)
Jun 18, 2004, 9:58 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2004
Programs: AA
Posts: 15
Policy on AA for Removing me from Flight (30 Minutes)
Had a very tight boarding timeframe due to a screw-up with my assistant, so ultimately that was the start of all my problems yesterday, but...
What is AA's policy on removing me from a flight because I wasn't at the desk 30 minutes ahead of the flight?
Here is the scenario and the timeline: (I have a confirmed seat, but no seat assignment, and no boarding pass because my assistant had to change my flight about an hour before it left).
T-30 Minutes: Arrive at EWR
T-29 Minutes: Try to get BP from Automated Keosk
T-28 Minutes: Keosk says it can't find me
T-25 Minutes: Get through line at First Class desk to get BP. She says she cannot give me a seat #, I need to do that at gate.
T-21 Minutes: Get through security and arrive at gate, ask for a seat assignment. I'm told they gave my seat away since I wasn't at the gate 30 minutes ahead of time.
First time this has ever happened to me. I'm platinum, and I asked if there was anything they could do, the desk clerk was very rude, and I'm not the traverler that ever argues with anyone, especially when this guy is trying to re-route me (which he screwed me on too.)
Ultimately the Admiral's club got me on a direct flight to ORD although very late.
They are so nice there, and I should of went there directly, but I know in the past you always needed to be there 15 minutes ahead of time. So I didn't want to risk stopping in there. (bad mistake)
Oh well, just wanted to see if anyone knew the exact policy.
Thanks.
What is AA's policy on removing me from a flight because I wasn't at the desk 30 minutes ahead of the flight?
Here is the scenario and the timeline: (I have a confirmed seat, but no seat assignment, and no boarding pass because my assistant had to change my flight about an hour before it left).
T-30 Minutes: Arrive at EWR
T-29 Minutes: Try to get BP from Automated Keosk
T-28 Minutes: Keosk says it can't find me
T-25 Minutes: Get through line at First Class desk to get BP. She says she cannot give me a seat #, I need to do that at gate.
T-21 Minutes: Get through security and arrive at gate, ask for a seat assignment. I'm told they gave my seat away since I wasn't at the gate 30 minutes ahead of time.
First time this has ever happened to me. I'm platinum, and I asked if there was anything they could do, the desk clerk was very rude, and I'm not the traverler that ever argues with anyone, especially when this guy is trying to re-route me (which he screwed me on too.)
Ultimately the Admiral's club got me on a direct flight to ORD although very late.
They are so nice there, and I should of went there directly, but I know in the past you always needed to be there 15 minutes ahead of time. So I didn't want to risk stopping in there. (bad mistake)
Oh well, just wanted to see if anyone knew the exact policy.
Thanks.
Jun 18, 2004, 10:44 am
#2
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 160
Boarding Policy
Dude,
This is an excellent question and one that I have been trapped in before. Depending on the airport, AA may deny boarding to any and all passengers that arrive at the airport 30 to 45 minutes prior to departure.
LAX is set at 40 minutes.
1. If you arrive at LAX 39m59s prior to departure and have not checked-in, you will be denied boarding.
2. Solution: Go to the AA website and print off a boarding card. You can do this between 1 to 30 hours of departure. If you don't have any bags to check, you can arrive at the gate 10 minutes before departure.
3. Problem: If you are checking bags, you must check-in based on local policy (30 to 45 min prior to departure). There is no way around this one as the computers have set cut-off times and to override is a security violation.
The LAX employees gave me a little card one day with all of this information in a graciously written format. I think I have captured everything above.
Got to know the rules if your gonna play the game (smile).
Hope this helps,
crju
This is an excellent question and one that I have been trapped in before. Depending on the airport, AA may deny boarding to any and all passengers that arrive at the airport 30 to 45 minutes prior to departure.
LAX is set at 40 minutes.
1. If you arrive at LAX 39m59s prior to departure and have not checked-in, you will be denied boarding.
2. Solution: Go to the AA website and print off a boarding card. You can do this between 1 to 30 hours of departure. If you don't have any bags to check, you can arrive at the gate 10 minutes before departure.
3. Problem: If you are checking bags, you must check-in based on local policy (30 to 45 min prior to departure). There is no way around this one as the computers have set cut-off times and to override is a security violation.
The LAX employees gave me a little card one day with all of this information in a graciously written format. I think I have captured everything above.
Got to know the rules if your gonna play the game (smile).
Hope this helps,
crju
Jun 18, 2004, 10:50 am
#3
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA PLT/5MM; AS MVP GLD 75K; DL DM; EK SLV; HHonors DIAM; Marriott GLD
Posts: 4,092
I think you would have been SOL even if you had gone to the Admirals Club. I do, however, think the gate agent slight mis-spoke. The issue is not whether you were at the gate 30 minutes prior to departure, but the fact that you had not checked in 30 minutes prior to departure (when the self-service kiosks stop issuing boarding passes).
From your narrative, it sounds like the flight was fully booked and/or had standby pax exceeding available seats (this is supported by the fact that you weren't able to get a seat assignment prior to airport arrival). Once the 30 minute clock ticked over, the gate agent started cancelling the reservations of those who had not yet checked in. Further, it appears this happened between T-25 (when the woman at the First Class counter could still evidently see your reservation) and T-21 (when you arrived at the gate and were told that your reservation had been cancelled).
Unfortunately, on fully booked flights, pax without pre-reserved seats are at greater risk for having their reservations cancelled, so you were probably among the first ones to get knocked off.
Surprisingly, when I went to check the AA website to confirm exact policy (which I've always thought was a 30 minute cutoff for check-in), the Customer Service Plan actually states:
"For flights wholly within and departing from the U.S., you must check-in at least 15 minutes before scheduled departure time, and be present at the departure gate to retain your reservation and a seat."
The 30 minute cutoff appears to only apply for acceptance of checked baggage.
So, it seems like you complied with the requirements.
I was surprised to see that they only require a 15 minute check-in for domestic flights; I think I've seen agents start clearing standbys well ahead of that window.
From your narrative, it sounds like the flight was fully booked and/or had standby pax exceeding available seats (this is supported by the fact that you weren't able to get a seat assignment prior to airport arrival). Once the 30 minute clock ticked over, the gate agent started cancelling the reservations of those who had not yet checked in. Further, it appears this happened between T-25 (when the woman at the First Class counter could still evidently see your reservation) and T-21 (when you arrived at the gate and were told that your reservation had been cancelled).
Unfortunately, on fully booked flights, pax without pre-reserved seats are at greater risk for having their reservations cancelled, so you were probably among the first ones to get knocked off.
Surprisingly, when I went to check the AA website to confirm exact policy (which I've always thought was a 30 minute cutoff for check-in), the Customer Service Plan actually states:
"For flights wholly within and departing from the U.S., you must check-in at least 15 minutes before scheduled departure time, and be present at the departure gate to retain your reservation and a seat."
The 30 minute cutoff appears to only apply for acceptance of checked baggage.
So, it seems like you complied with the requirements.
I was surprised to see that they only require a 15 minute check-in for domestic flights; I think I've seen agents start clearing standbys well ahead of that window.
Jun 18, 2004, 11:21 am
#4
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: GRU
Programs: *A Gold, OW Sapphire, SPG Gold, HH Diamond, Accor Plat
Posts: 3,367
We've had recently a similar thread at UA's forum.
Regardless of what airport placard suggest (LAX-40min, other airports-different times), ultimately you're bound by the contract of carriage, which I believe states your seat will be released at 20 min (please check AA contract).
The airport may SUGGEST 40, or XX minutes, but if you can't make through security in that time frame, it's your problem. The opposite also applies.
Were you at the gate within your allowed given time, you might have been IDB (involuntarily denied boarding), carrier's fault. The other option was that you missed the plane and the carrier gracefully offered you an alternative, your fault.
The point here is - What's the time informed in the AA's contract, rather than what airport placards might suggest or what a Gate Agent/CSR may inform.
Please check UA's interesting thread on this very same subject : Was this an IDB - Involuntary Denied Boarding ?
Regardless of what airport placard suggest (LAX-40min, other airports-different times), ultimately you're bound by the contract of carriage, which I believe states your seat will be released at 20 min (please check AA contract).
The airport may SUGGEST 40, or XX minutes, but if you can't make through security in that time frame, it's your problem. The opposite also applies.
Were you at the gate within your allowed given time, you might have been IDB (involuntarily denied boarding), carrier's fault. The other option was that you missed the plane and the carrier gracefully offered you an alternative, your fault.
The point here is - What's the time informed in the AA's contract, rather than what airport placards might suggest or what a Gate Agent/CSR may inform.
Please check UA's interesting thread on this very same subject : Was this an IDB - Involuntary Denied Boarding ?
Last edited by pb9997; Jun 18, 2004 at 11:26 am Reason: spelling
Jun 18, 2004, 11:28 am
#5
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA PLT/5MM; AS MVP GLD 75K; DL DM; EK SLV; HHonors DIAM; Marriott GLD
Posts: 4,092
so what's relevance of the Contract of Carriage and Customer Service Plan?
Hmmm.... both the Customer Service Plan (which AA filed with the DOT under threat of government intervention) and the Contract of Carriage clearly state a 15 minute check-in policy (this assumes no bag check and requires actual presence at the gate).
So, it continues to appear that the OP went by the rules and still got slammed.
So, it continues to appear that the OP went by the rules and still got slammed.
Jun 18, 2004, 1:21 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Originally Posted by HKG_Flyer1
So, it continues to appear that the OP went by the rules and still got slammed.
I hardly suggest to the OP (original poster) to write AA, explain what happened (including the name of the rude employee--not needed but makes the story more real and allows AA to follow-up), and claim for denied boarding compensation of $400 (if you got to the destination after 4 hours original schedule) or $200.
If the airline can arrange alternate transportation scheduled to arrive at the passengers destination within two hours of the planned arrival time of oversold flight or four hours on international flights -- the compensation is the amount of the fare to the passengers destination with a $200 maximum. If the airline cannot meet the two- or four-hour deadline, the amount of compensation doubles, with a $400 maximum.
Make sure that you copy your letter to Aviation Consumer Protection Division,
U.S. Department of Transportation, 400 7th Street, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20590.
The AA check-in rules (15 minutes) are clearly spelled out at http://www.aa.com/content/customerSe...e Cutoff Times , in case you need to reference them in your letter.
Last edited by hillrider; Jun 18, 2004 at 1:25 pm
Jun 18, 2004, 1:39 pm
#7
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 63,716
The agents were wrong. The 30 minute rule only applies to assigned seats. That means if you had a specific seat, like a bulkhead or exit row, and you didn't check-in at least 30 minutes prior to departure, the seat assignment will be given away.
However, your "seat" on the flight can't be given away as long as you both check-in and be at the gate area at least 15 minutes prior to departure. If the OP was speaking with the gate agent at 21 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time, then he should have been allowed to board.
I would contact AA, give them the timeline as you've stated it here, and append these specific parts of the condition of carriage.
The relevant parts are highlighted.
However, your "seat" on the flight can't be given away as long as you both check-in and be at the gate area at least 15 minutes prior to departure. If the OP was speaking with the gate agent at 21 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time, then he should have been allowed to board.
I would contact AA, give them the timeline as you've stated it here, and append these specific parts of the condition of carriage.
CHECK-IN REQUIREMENTS AND BAGGAGE ACCEPTANCE CUTOFF TIMES
Customers must comply with minimum check-in requirements to retain their seats on the flight on which they are confirmed. When travel is completely within the U.S. including Puerto Rico, and to Hawaii and the U.S. Virgin Islands recommended check-in time is at least 90 minutes prior to departure when checking baggage, and at least 60 minutes prior to departure if not checking baggage. For flights wholly within and departing from the U.S., you must check-in at least 15 minutes before scheduled departure time, and be present at the departure gate to retain your reservation and a seat.
For flights departing Hawaii and the U.S. Virgin Islands, recommended check-in time is at least two hours prior to scheduled departure.
For international flights, we recommend you arrive at the airport at least two hours prior to departure to allow sufficient time to complete all necessary international requirements. For flights originating outside the U.S., you must check-in at least 30 minutes before scheduled departure time, and be present at the departure gate to retain your reservation and a seat.
For flights departing Aruba and Port-au-Prince, Haiti, recommended check-in time is at least three hours prior to scheduled departure.
Baggage acceptance cutoff times mean that customers must present themselves and their baggage to an airline representative for check-in no later than the stated cutoff times for the departure airport.
Cutoff time for baggage check-in is 30 minutes before departure for all airports in the U.S., Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands with the following exceptions:
* Chicago - O'Hare (ORD) 40 minutes
* Denver, Colorado (DEN) 45 minutes
* Dulles International (IAD) 40 minutes
* Las Vegas, Nevada (LAS) 45 minutes
* Los Angeles (LAX) 40 minutes
* Miami, Florida (MIA) 45 minutes
* New York JFK, New York (JFK) 45 minutes
* Orlando, Florida (MCO) 40 minutes
Standard baggage acceptance cutoff for flights originating in all airports outside the U.S. and Canada is 45 minutes before departure.
You must be on board the aircraft and in your assigned seat at least 10 minutes before scheduled departure time.
Pre-reserved seats are subject to cancellation unless you have checked in at least 30 minutes before scheduled departure. American does not guarantee to provide any particular seat on the aircraft.
Customers must comply with minimum check-in requirements to retain their seats on the flight on which they are confirmed. When travel is completely within the U.S. including Puerto Rico, and to Hawaii and the U.S. Virgin Islands recommended check-in time is at least 90 minutes prior to departure when checking baggage, and at least 60 minutes prior to departure if not checking baggage. For flights wholly within and departing from the U.S., you must check-in at least 15 minutes before scheduled departure time, and be present at the departure gate to retain your reservation and a seat.
For flights departing Hawaii and the U.S. Virgin Islands, recommended check-in time is at least two hours prior to scheduled departure.
For international flights, we recommend you arrive at the airport at least two hours prior to departure to allow sufficient time to complete all necessary international requirements. For flights originating outside the U.S., you must check-in at least 30 minutes before scheduled departure time, and be present at the departure gate to retain your reservation and a seat.
For flights departing Aruba and Port-au-Prince, Haiti, recommended check-in time is at least three hours prior to scheduled departure.
Baggage acceptance cutoff times mean that customers must present themselves and their baggage to an airline representative for check-in no later than the stated cutoff times for the departure airport.
Cutoff time for baggage check-in is 30 minutes before departure for all airports in the U.S., Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands with the following exceptions:
* Chicago - O'Hare (ORD) 40 minutes
* Denver, Colorado (DEN) 45 minutes
* Dulles International (IAD) 40 minutes
* Las Vegas, Nevada (LAS) 45 minutes
* Los Angeles (LAX) 40 minutes
* Miami, Florida (MIA) 45 minutes
* New York JFK, New York (JFK) 45 minutes
* Orlando, Florida (MCO) 40 minutes
Standard baggage acceptance cutoff for flights originating in all airports outside the U.S. and Canada is 45 minutes before departure.
You must be on board the aircraft and in your assigned seat at least 10 minutes before scheduled departure time.
Pre-reserved seats are subject to cancellation unless you have checked in at least 30 minutes before scheduled departure. American does not guarantee to provide any particular seat on the aircraft.
Jun 18, 2004, 1:41 pm
#8
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA PLT/5MM; AS MVP GLD 75K; DL DM; EK SLV; HHonors DIAM; Marriott GLD
Posts: 4,092
Originally Posted by hillrider
The AA check-in rules (15 minutes) are clearly spelled out at http://www.aa.com/content/customerSe...e Cutoff Times , in case you need to reference them in your letter.
http://www.aa.com/content/customerSe....jhtml#CheckIn
Jun 18, 2004, 2:43 pm
#9
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nashvegas
Posts: 867
Had a somewhat similar situation at LAX. Digest version is I was in a taxi heading out of the airport when my assistant called and said LA meetings are off, come back to NYC and she had booked me on the next flight leaving in about 35 minutes' time. Yikes! Long line at security and check-in, kiosks on the fritz so I called PLT desk on my mobile phone for some help. She knew the computer would kick me out so she called the GA and told him/her I was in the airport and trying to get my BP so don't let my reservation go. Got the BP at T-notmuch and ran to make the flight. YMMV, but it impressed me for efficiency.
Jun 18, 2004, 3:41 pm
#10
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 677
Originally Posted by eamus
Had a somewhat similar situation at LAX. Digest version is I was in a taxi heading out of the airport when my assistant called and said LA meetings are off, come back to NYC and she had booked me on the next flight leaving in about 35 minutes' time. Yikes! Long line at security and check-in, kiosks on the fritz so I called PLT desk on my mobile phone for some help. She knew the computer would kick me out so she called the GA and told him/her I was in the airport and trying to get my BP so don't let my reservation go. Got the BP at T-notmuch and ran to make the flight. YMMV, but it impressed me for efficiency.
Jun 18, 2004, 4:28 pm
#11
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Houston, TX USA
Programs: United Platinum, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Avis President's Circle
Posts: 569
Originally Posted by HKG_Flyer1
The 30 minute cutoff appears to only apply for acceptance of checked baggage.
Jun 18, 2004, 5:34 pm
#12
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Juan Capistrano, CA
Programs: Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Diamond, AA 2.5 MM, United Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,460
I have to add my kudos to the front desk personnel at the ORD Admiral's Club. I was in a near impossible position, with AA denying me boarding on any flight that day after having cancelled a flight. The AC personnel got me on a flight and to my destination within 4 hours of my original time.
Also, I noted that in the quoted conditions of carriage, there is no different minimum required time for flights leaving from the U.S. and arriving in international desitinations -- it still appears to be 15 minutes! It is only when you leave from an international destination that the minimum required time increases to 30 minutes. Of course, the "recommended" time for international flights is two hours, rather than one.
Also, I noted that in the quoted conditions of carriage, there is no different minimum required time for flights leaving from the U.S. and arriving in international desitinations -- it still appears to be 15 minutes! It is only when you leave from an international destination that the minimum required time increases to 30 minutes. Of course, the "recommended" time for international flights is two hours, rather than one.
Jun 18, 2004, 7:41 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,517
Ah, the xminute rule. 
In the late '80's, my family was travelling LGA-STL on TW. Having a few kids (can't remember if we were 3 or 4 kids then), we waited at the old LGA Kidsport playground instead of the gate, and went to the gate about 10 minutes before departure to find they had given away our seats to standbys (even though we were checked in and had our BPs and everything). My mother was rather pissed off and we somehow forced our way onto the plane (kids and all), and we stood in the aisle (probably delaying the flight--hard to remember since I was only 10 or so at the time) until LGA security came and removed us from the plane.
Think "Meet the Parents" with a family of 5 or 6.
Don't imagine that would go over too well today....
In the late '80's, my family was travelling LGA-STL on TW. Having a few kids (can't remember if we were 3 or 4 kids then), we waited at the old LGA Kidsport playground instead of the gate, and went to the gate about 10 minutes before departure to find they had given away our seats to standbys (even though we were checked in and had our BPs and everything). My mother was rather pissed off and we somehow forced our way onto the plane (kids and all), and we stood in the aisle (probably delaying the flight--hard to remember since I was only 10 or so at the time) until LGA security came and removed us from the plane.Think "Meet the Parents" with a family of 5 or 6.
Don't imagine that would go over too well today....
Jun 18, 2004, 8:08 pm
#14
Join Date: Apr 2004
Programs: AA Plat; SPG Plat
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by hillrider
I hardly suggest to the OP (original poster) to write AA, explain what happened (including the name of the rude employee--not needed but makes the story more real and allows AA to follow-up), and claim for denied boarding compensation of $400 (if you got to the destination after 4 hours original schedule) or $200.
Jun 21, 2004, 9:45 am
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2004
Programs: AA
Posts: 15
Thanks for the responses!
I've decided to write a complaint to AA. Based on what I have read from the information you all have given me, I clearly was denied boarding improperly, and thus should receive a $400 compensation.
At least now I know what the rules are and can demand to see a supervisor. I only suspected this was the case, but wasn't about to argue it.
I will let everyone know what the outcome of this becomes.
Again, thank you all.
At least now I know what the rules are and can demand to see a supervisor. I only suspected this was the case, but wasn't about to argue it.
I will let everyone know what the outcome of this becomes.
Again, thank you all.