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-   -   ARCHIVE: Routes (Flights) and Hubs (Speculation, News and Discussion) (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage-pre-consolidation-usair/1649529-archive-routes-flights-hubs-speculation-news-discussion.html)

phlwookie Jun 12, 2015 2:06 pm


Originally Posted by FWAAA (Post 24960497)
In post #502, perseus11 claimed that AA had said it needed "a lot more gates to achieve their goal at PHL," and that's the first I'd heard of it.

At five daily flights per gate, AA's 90 gates at PHL are severely underutilized. Not unusual for the dominant airline to underutilize assets at its hubs - better for keeping competitors at bay by playing keep-away with the assets like gates, etc.

PHL A-West is lightly used except for two times - an early day Caribbean/some domestic push, then heavily utilized, especially in the summer months, in late afternoon and evening for the European banks. There is plenty of space for departures outside of those two times, or potentially more later evening Europe departures.

There are 39 gates in F used for Dash-8s and CRJs, and there is likely more flexibility there. I get the sense that B/C are pretty heavily used at the flight banks and am unsure there is much flexibility to add much there. A-East (gates up through A13), aside from the legacy AA gates, are I believe mostly pay per use, and overflow from the evening EU banks go out of there.

So there's definitely room to grow both domestically and internationally, plus they could probably squeeze more out of B/C.

perseus11 Jun 12, 2015 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by FWAAA (Post 24960497)
In post #502, perseus11 claimed that AA had said it needed "a lot more gates to achieve their goal at PHL," and that's the first I'd heard of it.

At five daily flights per gate, AA's 90 gates at PHL are severely underutilized. Not unusual for the dominant airline to underutilize assets at its hubs - better for keeping competitors at bay by playing keep-away with the assets like gates, etc.

Unless you have significant insight into what Parker's future plans are for PHL, it may be premature to refute the need for more gates, based on today's usage. Of course, I realize how difficult that is for JFK/pre merger AA centric attitudes to accept. My personal position on JFK is (as I've said many times), that the intense competitive environment, the restrictive resources (slots) and the Fee structure makes it far less appealing for both domestic and transoceanic connecting services, than PHL I'd also speculated that most travelers aren't interested in putting up with JFK's domestic-international connecting nightmares, versus PHL, just to see the NYC skyline.
Of course I fully expect a 500 line dissertation like reply.

We'll just have to wait until mid-2017 to see which position on PHL is more accurate.

JonNYC Jun 12, 2015 2:13 pm


Originally Posted by perseus11 (Post 24961411)
Unless you have significant insight into what Parker's future plans are for PHL, it may be premature to refute the need for more gates, based on today's usage. Of course, I realize how difficult that is for JFK/pre merger AA centric attitudes to accept. My personal position on JFK is (as I've said many times), that the intense competitive environment, the restrictive resources (slots) and the Fee structure makes it far less appealing for both domestic and transoceanic connecting services, than PHL I'd also speculated that most travelers aren't interested in putting up with JFK's domestic-international connecting nightmares, versus PHL, just to see the NYC skyline.
Of course I fully expect a 500 line dissertation like reply.

The question, though, is, where did you get this exact piece of information:

Originally Posted by perseus11 (Post 24950766)
.AMR also indicated that they need a lot more gates to achieve their goal at PHL


perseus11 Jun 12, 2015 2:48 pm


Originally Posted by jonnyc (Post 24961422)
the question, though, is, where did you get this exact piece of information:

i made it up :D:D

Hollinger Clarke Jun 12, 2015 3:16 pm


Originally Posted by perseus11 (Post 24961411)
My personal position on JFK is (as I've said many times), that the intense competitive environment, the restrictive resources (slots) and the Fee structure makes it far less appealing for both domestic and transoceanic connecting services, than PHL I'd also speculated that most travelers aren't interested in putting up with JFK's domestic-international connecting nightmares, versus PHL, just to see the NYC skyline.

Yes indeed - a total nightmare consisting of getting off my domestic flight, walking for all of 10 mins, sitting in front of the international gate with a cup of coffee waiting for boarding to be called - what unimaginable horror :D

Also AAs JFK transatlantic network doesnt need too many connections to thrive (just a few well connected ones aka ORD LAX DFW SFO MIA and a bunch of NE and Eastern Seaboard cities) - NYC has enough O&D even with the competitive environment.

I understand this might be a little difficult for someone with a pre-merger US Airways mindset of low yielding low cost hub operations to fully grasp but c'est le vie :D

cmd320 Jun 12, 2015 3:23 pm


Originally Posted by Hollinger Clarke (Post 24961725)
Yes indeed - a total nightmare consisting of getting off my domestic flight, walking for all of 10 mins, sitting in front of the international gate with a cup of coffee waiting for boarding to be called - what unimaginable horror :D

Also AAs JFK transatlantic network doesnt need too many connections to thrive (just a few well connected ones aka ORD LAX DFW SFO MIA and a bunch of NE and Eastern Seaboard cities) - NYC has enough O&D even with the competitive environment.

I understand this might be a little difficult for someone with a pre-merger US Airways mindset of low yielding low cost hub operations to fully grasp but c'est le vie :D

JFK AC has showers, PHL US Club turned AC does not. Other things like price and schedule held relatively constant, that information alone is enough for me to choose a JFK transfer over a PHL transfer. AA Intl. to AA Domestic at JFK is actually a really easy experience. I once did a 28 minute Intl-Dom connection at JFK on AA (yes, there was running involved :D).

GSP flyer Jun 12, 2015 4:12 pm


Originally Posted by nova08 (Post 24959990)
Keep in mind just about all, if not all, E-jets operate out of A, B, or C.
I think it is plausible for them to want more gates capable of handling larger E-jets. PHL is E-jet central and much of F can't handle them without causing disruptions to neighboring gates. I am not sure how easy it is to reconfigure F, but after all of the interior work just completed, I would think they want to utilize that terminal as much as possible in the future. Decreasing the number of gates in F and including some number of gates capable of handling E-jets will allow them to do that.

What might be logical is to move one of either Delta or United from Concourse D to the underutilized E, which was expanded for the purpose of a much bigger Southwest operation that never arrived; US could then pick up those D gates for E-Jet ops.

scnzzz Jun 12, 2015 6:14 pm


Originally Posted by Piedmont767 (Post 24143436)
I think that Charlotte will get a QR flight within the next 2-3 years. I believe that Charlotte, along with Atlanta, Boston, San Francisco and Los Angeles are some of the next logical destinations for Qatar. An airline doesn't order new aircraft, not to expand to new markets.

As for Emirates to DXB, probably won't happen but if it does it won't happen for a while.

As you say, QR recently announced plans to add ATL, BOS and LAX.
http://www.qatarairways.com/global/e...essrelease_usa. Why would they leave CLT out of that list?

I suspect they're far more interested in high-yielding O/D traffic than collecting more low fare feeders - which IMO fits ATL better than the OW hub at CLT. I'm sure they're planning lots of new markets...just not in the US, where they will have by my count 10 destinations after these new adds (JFK, PHL, ORD, DFW, MIA, IAD, IAH, plus the three new adds in 2016).

I don't think CLT is in their plans in the near term. Another way of thinking about it - how many customers in the SE would they not reach with flights out of IAH, DFW, IAD, MIA and ATL?

FlightNurse Jun 13, 2015 4:35 am


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 24959381)
The irony here is that prior to the merger, more flights outside of these premium markets received enhanced service. For example there was an enhanced non-premium transcon service on routes like MIA-SAN, MIA-SFO, LAX-IAD, LAX-BOS, SAN-JFK, etc. It was only post-merger when all of these routes were treated no differently than your average midcon and SFO/LAX-JFK where elevated to a pedestal.

Beating the dead horse in another thread that had nothing to do with meal service, classy..

First off, SAN-JFK-SAN use to have the same service as LAX-JFK, but this was cut years before the BK and merger, but please continue to blame Parker. Infact, the service on the LAX/SFO-JFK has been downgraded way before the BK, but continue to blame Parker.

Second, Meal service on all domestic flights have been going down hill since 9-11, so please continue to blame Parker.

Third, I remember when AA serviced Prime Rib and carved it right in front of you, and I'm sure in your world, this was Parkers doing!

Lastly, the downfall of DL's food, has to be Parkers fault in your world...

cmd320 Jun 13, 2015 8:32 am


Originally Posted by cmd320 (Post 24959381)
The irony here is that prior to the merger, more flights outside of these premium markets received enhanced service. For example there was an enhanced non-premium transcon service on routes like MIA-SAN, MIA-SFO, LAX-IAD, LAX-BOS, SAN-JFK, etc. It was only post-merger when all of these routes were treated no differently than your average midcon and SFO/LAX-JFK where elevated to a pedestal.


Originally Posted by FlightNurse (Post 24963686)
Beating the dead horse in another thread that had nothing to do with meal service, classy..

First off, SAN-JFK-SAN use to have the same service as LAX-JFK, but this was cut years before the BK and merger, but please continue to blame Parker. Infact, the service on the LAX/SFO-JFK has been downgraded way before the BK, but continue to blame Parker.

Second, Meal service on all domestic flights have been going down hill since 9-11, so please continue to blame Parker.

Third, I remember when AA serviced Prime Rib and carved it right in front of you, and I'm sure in your world, this was Parkers doing!

Lastly, the downfall of DL's food, has to be Parkers fault in your world...

:rolleyes:

Why don't we put things into context here rather than being excessively sensational?

First of all, the OP stated that it seems as though pmAA and its customers cared about few routes other than prem transcons and JFK-LHR. I replied with how I found that ironic, because the difference in service levels has never been greater between prem transcons and non-prem transcons, midcons, etc. Pre-merger, these flights had printed menu cards, three choices of entree, duvets, a pre-arrival cookie, etc.

I don't recall ever mentioning Parker in my reply. I don't recall ever mentioning 9/11 in my reply :confused:, nor do I recall ever mentioning prime rib or meal service at DL in my reply. :confused::confused:

The reality is that this statement:

If AA FT members got to run the airline, AA would own no more than a few dozen planes and the only routes in the system would be JFK<->LHR, JFK<->LAX and JFK<->SFO. And since we've already seen AA get outclassed on all three of those, bAAnkruptcy would be the logical result.
... is remarkably flawed if we take a look at even 10 months ago.

Austin787 Jun 13, 2015 1:38 pm


Originally Posted by FWAAA (Post 24958324)
Perhaps you're right, and AA will begin even more international flights at PHL, but as you said, US already flies "to many European destinations." Which ones have significant O&D from PHL that US hasn't been serving?

PHL-NRT/HKG/DXB/GRU/DUS/HEL for starters, when enough 787s and A350s enter the fleet. In addition to serving a highly populated metro area, PHL has lots of domestic flights to help fill the international flights.

cmd320 Jun 13, 2015 1:43 pm


Originally Posted by Austin787 (Post 24965299)
PHL-NRT/HKG/DXB/GRU/DUS/HEL for starters, when enough 787s and A350s enter the fleet. In addition to serving a highly populated metro area, PHL has lots of domestic flights to help fill the international flights.

I wouldn't bet a lot of money on PHL-HKG and I would bet that we will probably never see AA metal in DXB. The rest are very plausible though. Maybe even a few smaller secondary and tertiary EU cities.

MAH4546 Jun 14, 2015 7:52 am

LAXSFO will finally become an hourly shuttle service on September 10th. Can't believe it took so long.

hillrider Jun 14, 2015 8:34 am


Originally Posted by MAH4546 (Post 24967899)
LAXSFO will finally become an hourly shuttle service on September 10th. Can't believe it took so long.

it's still the same 6x day on AA; they've just added 3 more Eagle RJs :td:

hillrider Jun 14, 2015 8:41 am

JFKSFO increases after 10SEP to up to 7x day (on Mon, Thu, Sun), 6x day on Tue, Wed, 5x day on Fri and 4x on Sat.

The opposite SFOJFK sees a reduction to a mere 3x on Sat.


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