AA Oversells AA76, Strands 27 8th Graders at LAX
#31
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
How do you think those other passengers would have felt? Maybe they know IDB policy. Maybe they don't. But skipping over the last to check in passengers without seat assignments to IDB someone else goes against AA's protocol. If those passengers had seat assignments or had checked in at T-24 knowing that they didn't have seat assignments and were at risk for IDB - and still get IDBed anyways, I'd certainly be POed. These policies are in place for a reason. Anyone who wants to can learn how to best avoid an IDB.
As an alternative, 27 people felt really annoyed that they bought tickets and then American didn't get them to their destination through no fault of their own. And the plane flew with 20 empty seats.
The policy is designed to help American who to choose IDB, but the conditions of carriage already acknowledge that time of check-in is not a hard and fast rule:
American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage program.
#32
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 446
I don't think that's an unreasonable request. Can you imagine the uproar if something were to happen to one of those 6 kids that he sent on another flight? If you have final responsibility for the safety of those kids, you can't exactly ensure that if they are 1500 miles away from you on a connecting flight in Dallas.
#33
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Posts: 546
This happened to my son's 8th grade trip to DC in Feb. They were on US Airways from SFO and US bumped a number of kids from one of the two flights. As as aside, it most probably wasn't the school that made the flight bookings (either in my son's case or the case in point here). These trips to DC tend to get organized by specialist companies who handle all the logistics for the trip including all the flight arrangements. If that's what happened here it's more likely than not that the school isn't directly to blame, it's on both the trip planner and the airline - comments about the irresponsible principals/teachers etc are probably off-base. Anyway, nothing wrong with AA overbooking a flight, but there's everything wrong with AA accepting a group booking involving so many minors and not itself ensuring that things didn't turn out the way they did. One PNR with so many passengers (which may well have been the issue here) ought to have stuck out and raised a few flags pre-departure.
#34
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold, Hertz PC, AMEX PLT
Posts: 314
I think everyone needs to remember something important here - these are not 27 frequent flyers going to a business meeting. These are CHILDREN who are so excited to be traveling to Washington for a trip. You can say all you want about what the adults "should" have done, but in the end AA (thru whatever decision maker) disappointed kids and made the airline look foolish.
Stop for a moment before you post and think about how you would feel if you son or daughter was in this situation. For days, they have been talking non-stop about the big adventure and counting down the minutes until the trip. Just to be told that they are not going any longer and have to go home.
Have we become so cold-hearted here on FT that disappointed children become acceptable because AA followed "procedure"? If so, then how sad.
Stop for a moment before you post and think about how you would feel if you son or daughter was in this situation. For days, they have been talking non-stop about the big adventure and counting down the minutes until the trip. Just to be told that they are not going any longer and have to go home.
Have we become so cold-hearted here on FT that disappointed children become acceptable because AA followed "procedure"? If so, then how sad.
Our culture today is to outrage over everything and force sides. Everyone should stop overreacting. AA should help the students get to IAD and learn from the event. The school (and all schools) should learn from the event. May we all be a bit wiser next time and may the kids enjoy Washington.
#35
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: BTR/MSY
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LTP, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,282
How do you think those other passengers would have felt? Maybe they know IDB policy. Maybe they don't. But skipping over the last to check in passengers without seat assignments to IDB someone else goes against AA's protocol. If those passengers had seat assignments or had checked in at T-24 knowing that they didn't have seat assignments and were at risk for IDB - and still get IDBed anyways, I'd certainly be POed. These policies are in place for a reason. Anyone who wants to can learn how to best avoid an IDB.
Now, it's not to say the group is completely blameless. Yes, anyone can learn about how to avoid IDB, but realistically not many people will. They could have avoided this situation by paying for a few premium seats. But again, realistically it's probably not going to happen.
#36
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Austin TX
Programs: AA PLT, ICH Plat
Posts: 1,965
Am I correct that the only facts we have is Post #1 which tells us nothing
except everyone has to buy a new ticket? Which cannot be correct?
Are these the only FACTS?
except everyone has to buy a new ticket? Which cannot be correct?
Are these the only FACTS?
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Not only do we have very sketchy "facts" (some of which cannot possibly be correct, as pointed out) but we have lots of unsupported assumptions as well.
My children have traveled on similar teacher-sponsored/school approved trips, all of which were arranged by one of the numerous school trip travel agencies. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the travel arrangements of this trip were not arranged by the principal but the group used one of the travel agencies that specialize in middle-school trips to DC and New York.
The principal was the only adult? Not a chance. Zero chance of that one being accurate. No school, public or religious, would send 27 kids to DC with just one adult male chaperone.
From my reading of the "facts," it sounds like a lot of people dropped the ball here and let these children down.
As an aside, every one of my kids' school trips to the east coast flew on overnight redeyes so as to not waste an entire day flying. Someone dropped the ball right there.
My children have traveled on similar teacher-sponsored/school approved trips, all of which were arranged by one of the numerous school trip travel agencies. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the travel arrangements of this trip were not arranged by the principal but the group used one of the travel agencies that specialize in middle-school trips to DC and New York.
The principal was the only adult? Not a chance. Zero chance of that one being accurate. No school, public or religious, would send 27 kids to DC with just one adult male chaperone.
From my reading of the "facts," it sounds like a lot of people dropped the ball here and let these children down.
As an aside, every one of my kids' school trips to the east coast flew on overnight redeyes so as to not waste an entire day flying. Someone dropped the ball right there.
#38
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Austin TX
Programs: AA PLT, ICH Plat
Posts: 1,965
The reporter and editors did a horrible job. Anyone with any knowledge of how the airline world works would have asked about IDB comp.
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: KHOU/KIAH
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Posts: 11,316
This happened to my son's 8th grade trip to DC in Feb. They were on US Airways from SFO and US bumped a number of kids from one of the two flights. As as aside, it most probably wasn't the school that made the flight bookings (either in my son's case or the case in point here). These trips to DC tend to get organized by specialist companies who handle all the logistics for the trip including all the flight arrangements. If that's what happened here it's more likely than not that the school isn't directly to blame, it's on both the trip planner and the airline - comments about the irresponsible principals/teachers etc are probably off-base. Anyway, nothing wrong with AA overbooking a flight, but there's everything wrong with AA accepting a group booking involving so many minors and not itself ensuring that things didn't turn out the way they did. One PNR with so many passengers (which may well have been the issue here) ought to have stuck out and raised a few flags pre-departure.
It is an unfortunate circumstance, yes. But I don't think it is anyones fault. "Stuff" happens.
#40
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: AA EXP 3MM
Posts: 1,773
No, there is also the fact (if you accept an update to the original article as fact) that the party was flown to DFW yesterday (original departure date), put up for the night at a Marriott and then are confirmed on the flight from DFW to IAD that leaves in about 5 min and is scheduled to arrive at 3 pm Eastern (22 hours after scheduled arrival on original itinerary). <in post #28>
#41
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Austin TX
Programs: AA PLT, ICH Plat
Posts: 1,965
No, there is also the fact (if you accept an update to the original article as fact) that the party was flown to DFW yesterday (original departure date), put up for the night at a Marriott and then are confirmed on the flight from DFW to IAD that leaves in about 5 min and is scheduled to arrive at 3 pm Eastern (22 hours after scheduled arrival on original itinerary). <in post #28>
#42
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 669
IDB is always a possibility for airlines that routinely overbook flights and it's up to them to balance the IDB risk/cost against the risk/cost of empty seats. When calculating the level of overbooking for that flight, AA should have taken into account that breaking up a large group of schoolkids is not usually an acceptable option.
#43
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IDB is always a possibility for airlines that routinely overbook flights and it's up to them to balance the IDB risk/cost against the risk/cost of empty seats. When calculating the level of overbooking for that flight, AA should have taken into account that breaking up a large group of schoolkids is not usually an acceptable option.
Further, once ticketed the only options were to IDB pax with seats or IDB those without seats. AA chose to follow policy.
Again, not really an issue that needs to have blame thrown around.
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: LAX
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If they had a culture more like WN's, then this problem would've been easily solved.
Sure, you have your IDB priorities, but you should also NEVER screw around with groups full of minors.
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,278
I can, and I imagine the parents can as well. Yes, the premium seats are an extra fee, but that's not an excuse for not paying. They decided to cheap out on the tickets, and this is the end result. It's not fair to bump the responsible passengers who paid for their seats and checked in early to make room for this guy's group.
Obviously the best economic decision for AA would have been to IDB 6 other passengers, in terms of the re-accommodation costs they're now incurring and the bad PR. But I guess this GA couldn't see the forest through the trees.