jamar

CX has a far better soft product than AA (contrast with PMUA- I was not a happy camper about flying them ORD-PVG on a 747 but back then I wasn't in a position to decide and my parents were a "4 engines 4 long-haul" sort of people). And, of course, their 777s are all 3-3-3.

WRCSolberg

Yet AF and Emirates still operate 10 abreast 777s to the US with nary a problem.

Again, AF and Emirates both operate them on extended duration flights without issue. I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill with this obesity issue. You make it out as if every American is 6'10 and 400 lbs.

That's not the point. It simply illustrates what the average pax is willing to endure when the price is right - stage length is rather irrelevant, the same concept applies to both long and short haul.


Sure, it's called the Pareto principle, i.e. 80% of your business(revenue) is 20% of your customers(high dollar passengers). Why chase the low end of the market when those resources could be better used to attract the customers that matter more on a per capita basis? That's why Y+ is a home run here, IMO.

There's also a difference between selling and marketing. AA will sell a ticket to anyone, that doesn't mean they're directing marketing towards those customers.

I disagree. 45+ seats is not an insignificant number and you're also taking this a bit out of context. Most elite status members obtained that status on someone else's dime, i.e. they travel for work. Many corporations(at least the ones that I've worked for) typically have a travel policy of J being permissable with flights x hours in length.

Give that most 777s operate routes in excess of 6 hours, how many high value elites are really going to be stuck in Y-? And how many high value elites will be competing for those Y+ seats in the first place? And that's not including those that will upgrade as well via various means.


If you say so.

I don't think anyone said that it was guaranteed. I just don't seem to think it's the tragedy that you do.

sxf24

The fact is that CX has 17" wide seats on its 747s and no one seems to complain about that. Yet, when AA announces a similar product on its aircraft, people throw a fit.

I agree that superior service and entertainment goes a long way towards making a flight more enjoyable, even if the personal space is less, and I would certainly encourage AA to invest in those areas as it rolls out the new 777 configuration.

GUWonder

CX and EK passengers and flight attendants are less likely to be obese than AA passengers or crews, so the narrower seats and/or aisles are less likely to be an issue with those airlines than with AA flights.

carlosdca

What happens here is that most of us that have traveled on a 777 in Economy with 9 abreast on a "very full" flight know what it is like.
On AA's 2-5-2, the window rows are ok (seats A,B,H,K), because I have the aisle to lean to and my seatmate has the window to lean against, so it is manageable. Now, sit on D,E,or F on the current configuration and it feels pretty cramped, almost unbearable.

Now, bring in 3-4-3, no rows of 2's, higher chance of getting stuck in the middle AND one more seat across the row. It sounds like a horrible experience compared to the current configuration that is already tight.

That fact is that we know how 9 abreast feels like. It is reasonable to think that one more seat in the row is just going to make it worse.

sxf24

I don't deny that 10-abreast on a 777 offers less personal space than 9-abreast. That said, it is the same configuration as on a 747, which flies flights of similar stage length without generating this level of complaints.

American carriers also manage to fit American passengers and flight attendants on 747s without issue. Based on the feedback in this thread, I'm left with the conclusion that AA flight attendants and passengers have wider posteriors that their counterparts on DL and UA.

bernardd

I'm sorry but I've spent enough hours in the back of enough 747's operated by enough carriers to disbelieve your claim the "normal" seat is 1" narrower than that on the 777. I still don't know the origin of your claim of a 17" width.

It seems to me that no matter the numbers, there's a fairly uniform product across 747's, 9-wide 777's and the A300/310/330/340 family. What we're talking about with the 10-wide 777's is basically putting a short haul 738/752 seat that I find uncomfortable enough after 3-4 hours, into aircraft that will be doing 15+ hour sectors.

People may be willing (should that be suckered?) into buying that, but not me, nor will I be paying extra for MCE seats that essentially restore todays standard of discomfort. So far as I'm concerned AA coach is a no-go area.

MAH4546

Aren't you lifetime Plat? You will never have to worry about sitting in Y, because you get the MCE seats for free. And a significant increase in legroom restores today's standard discomofort? Okay...

jordyn

No. There aren't enough MCE seats for that to be true. This is especially the case if you're paying a high fare by virtue of buying last minute.

GUWonder

No need to perpetuate a myth. The fact is that a lot of AA elites -- including even just PLTs and EXPs -- will end up in non-MCE seats in the worsening economy class section on these planes.

I have lifetime Platinum status at a minimum and it won't always or even generally spare me from being in the worsening economy class section on these planes going to 3-4-3

sxf24

If you'd like to disbelieve Seatguru, that's fine. I've also seen specifications for various 747 operators and can tell you the standard seat width is 17-17.1".

If you find the product to be fairly uniform between the 747 and other widebody aircraft, you should have no issue with a 10-abreast 777. In fact, you should find the window seats much more comfortable than any Airbus product because the side wall is nearly vertical on the 777, giving you significantly more head and shoulder room than the steep angle on an Airbus.

MAH4546

I'm not perpetuating a myth. You, however, are significantly overestimating how many Plats and Exps are on each long-haul flight.

jordyn

That's ridiculous. I've been on MD80s with more than 30 PLTs and EXPs; you think there will never be a 777-300 with that many?

sxf24

Will there ever be a 777-300ER with 30 PLTs and EXPs? Yes, I'm sure it is possible.

However, the concentration of elites is generally much, much less on long-haul international flights in Y than domestically.

jordyn

I haven't seen any data, but that seems plausible to me. However, MAH4546 asserted that a Plat would never sit in crappy Y due to the presence of MCE. That is obviously incorrect, and even without taking weird scenarios into consideration, it becomes downright likely that elites will end up in crappy seats if American actually succeeds in monetizing MCE by getting people to buy up to it.