LA Times: The frequent fliers who flew too much [lifetime AAirpass withdrawn]
May 8, 2012, 4:53 pm
#151
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
No need to miss flights. Just ask each companion each time "Did you pay the pass holder for your ticket?". That takes about 15 seconds. Kind of like asking if they packed their own bags, have they had their bags with them at all times, etc.
If the pass holder is, in fact, taking money in return for a ticket, eventually someone will blurt out the truth. If not, then the pass holder need not worry.
Even better: the pass holder will only take companions who are truly friends and relatives, not random untrustworthy strangers.
If the pass holder is, in fact, taking money in return for a ticket, eventually someone will blurt out the truth. If not, then the pass holder need not worry.
Even better: the pass holder will only take companions who are truly friends and relatives, not random untrustworthy strangers.
May 8, 2012, 9:11 pm
#152
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,439
May 8, 2012, 10:09 pm
#154
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DFW -
Programs: AA EXP 5MM, DL DM, Bonvoy Titanium, Avis CHM, National VIP
Posts: 556
We flew AA on our honeymoon in 1990 DFW-HNL-SYD. It was on a DC-10 or MD-11.
May 8, 2012, 10:30 pm
#155
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
(so in case your spouse reads FT, we'll just go with DC-10 
).
May 8, 2012, 10:44 pm
#156
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,439
"American reserves the right to terminate this agreement and refund the purchase price of any AAirpass..."
Well, that's interesting.
May 8, 2012, 11:09 pm
#157
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
Here's something interesting. I went through Mr Vroom's contract and saw, on page 8, paragraph 18c:
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-contract.html
Well, that's interesting.
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...-contract.html
Well, that's interesting.
May 9, 2012, 5:42 am
#158
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
You would think it would make more sense. And cheaper than the legal fees they have likely incurred. But it probably would not have kept someone in a job at AA, so we all know how those stories end
May 9, 2012, 7:58 am
#159
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Upper Sternistan
Posts: 10,047
I was wondering about the refund option also (and mentioned it earlier in the thread, I think).
It would hardly even be a lot of money - there's no stipulation there that the dollar amount get adjusted for inflation, so the amount would seem trivial years later. The amount would certainly be less than their liability going forward either allowing him to fly or hiring lawyers.
There must be more to it somewhere.
It would hardly even be a lot of money - there's no stipulation there that the dollar amount get adjusted for inflation, so the amount would seem trivial years later. The amount would certainly be less than their liability going forward either allowing him to fly or hiring lawyers.
There must be more to it somewhere.
May 9, 2012, 8:36 am
#160
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DFW -
Programs: AA EXP 5MM, DL DM, Bonvoy Titanium, Avis CHM, National VIP
Posts: 556
My wife definitely does NOT read FT (and thinks I read it too much!), but I went back and looked at my log and it was definitely a DC-10. Returned on a QF 747-400, which was still pretty new and exotic, nonstop SYD-LAX, .
May 9, 2012, 8:42 am
#161
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,439
c) American reserves the right to terminate this agreement and refund the purchase price of any AAirpass, less charges for mileage actually flown, calculated at a rate of $.28, except for Unlimited Mileage AAirpasses, wich will be refunded in accordance with paragraph 7, subparagraph d) of this agreement.
d) For purposes of applying such formulas to refunds on Lifetime AAirpasses, these AAirpasses shall be deemed to have the following terms: REgular Lifetime AAirpass - 120 months (10 years); Unlimited Mileage Lifetime AAirpass - 200 months. To determine the mileage purchased with any Regular Lifetime AAirpass (... irrelevent ...) The second formula is inapplicable to refunds on Unlimited Mileage Lifetime and and Unlimlited 5 Year Term AAirpasses.
Remaining full months before expiration
__________________________________________
Total AAirpass months purchased x Purchase Price =A
__________________________________________
Total AAirpass months purchased x Purchase Price =A
So, the pass holders in question had Unlimited Lifetime AAirpasses, which are "deemed to have" a term of 200 months, or 16 years 8 months.
According to the contract, the AAirpass was purchased 1-2-90 (top of page 9). (The countersuit says 12-28-89.) By 2007, those 200 months were up. In other words, the formula for a refund would revert to a negative number in September, 2007.
The pass holder was confronted in LHR and handed the letter terminating the AAirpass in July, 2008. Thus, if I read this correctly, American Airlines owed the pass holder nothing by way of refund for the cancelled AAirpass (paragraph 7) and had the right (paragraph 18c) to terminate the agreement.
If I am reading this right, there was no need whatsoever to confront the two companions at LHR.
May 9, 2012, 10:17 am
#162
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CMI (Champaign, IL)
Programs: AA, WN, UA
Posts: 268
There is another thread somewhere on FT where one of the lifetime pass holders talks about the intangible value of the pass. He mentions that there was an incredible feeling of freedom that came with the card, since you could actually get on any flight with seats, anytime, and go anywhere in the AA network. He indicated that the value of that feeling is different for every person, but in his case, it was more than worth the price of the pass, and was a far greater feeling of freedom than simply having the cash in the bank and using it to buy a refundable F ticket.
Of course, such a plan works only if you intend to use at least close to the per-use value of everything in the final analysis. You wouldn't pay $20 for unlimited carnival rides if you expected to ride just once and the per-ride cost was $5.
May 9, 2012, 1:36 pm
#163
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 200
When people paid $300,000 back then to purchase the lifetime AAirpass,
did they just send $300,000 checks directly to AA? Based on all the stuff
that's publicly available, it appears to be what they did.
It just seems to me that if I were one of those people, I would definitely
get my attorney to carefully go over the contract before making the
payment and signing it.
If AA somehow comes to its senses and resolve this by giving out
refunds to the offending lifetime AAirpass owners, will the refund
be $300,000? Or is it $300,000 in today's dollars?
did they just send $300,000 checks directly to AA? Based on all the stuff
that's publicly available, it appears to be what they did.
It just seems to me that if I were one of those people, I would definitely
get my attorney to carefully go over the contract before making the
payment and signing it.
If AA somehow comes to its senses and resolve this by giving out
refunds to the offending lifetime AAirpass owners, will the refund
be $300,000? Or is it $300,000 in today's dollars?
May 9, 2012, 2:08 pm
#164
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
When people paid $300,000 back then to purchase the lifetime AAirpass,
did they just send $300,000 checks directly to AA? Based on all the stuff
that's publicly available, it appears to be what they did.
It just seems to me that if I were one of those people, I would definitely
get my attorney to carefully go over the contract before making the
payment and signing it.
If AA somehow comes to its senses and resolve this by giving out
refunds to the offending lifetime AAirpass owners, will the refund
be $300,000? Or is it $300,000 in today's dollars?
did they just send $300,000 checks directly to AA? Based on all the stuff
that's publicly available, it appears to be what they did.
It just seems to me that if I were one of those people, I would definitely
get my attorney to carefully go over the contract before making the
payment and signing it.
If AA somehow comes to its senses and resolve this by giving out
refunds to the offending lifetime AAirpass owners, will the refund
be $300,000? Or is it $300,000 in today's dollars?
May 9, 2012, 2:15 pm
#165
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
read the contract.