Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Discontinued Programs/Partners > American Airlines | AAdvantage (Pre-Consolidation with USAir)
Reload this Page >

ARCHIVE: US LCC & AMR / AA Takeover / merger Rumors and Discussion (consolidated)

Community
Wiki Posts
Search
Old Feb 14, 2013, 9:50 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: JDiver
MODERATOR GUIDEPOST

The AA - US merger was approved by AMR creditors and the boards of directors of both airlines on 13 Feb 2013, and announced the 14th.

There is no further speculation about whether the merger will occur; all that is pending is approval from the bankruptcy court and the regulatory authorities.

American Airlines and US Airways approve merger: just the facts, please outlines the facts we know;

AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement Discussion (consolidated) is the thread for discussion of the announced merger.
Print Wikipost

ARCHIVE: US LCC & AMR / AA Takeover / merger Rumors and Discussion (consolidated)

 
Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:10 am
  #241  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
This is moving closer and closer to a done deal but its not a deal until the paper are signed. Any number of things could derail this combination.

We should not assume that the new combined FF (elite) program would be solely USAir. Parker should remember that AA has significant corporate business that pays for premium International flying. He will have two large competitors licking their chops to get that business.
MiamiAirport Formerly NY George is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:17 am
  #242  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: jfk
Programs: AA- exp 8.2MM, SQ, DL, spg plat
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by DallasAudiGuy
This thread is why FT is so great. I wonder if lifetime status will change, either for us who already have it, or for those who are close to getting it. Does US have any program like this?
Does it really make a difference?? If this merger happens and FT benefits are cut, both DL and UA are going to be over AA/US Elites like sharks that smell blood.

The chances in real life is that the benefits will INCREASE and hopefully some other common sense changes in fare structures and other ways of doing business can be implemented that will keep the Elites in the AA/US camp
wdchuck1 is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:20 am
  #243  
uxb
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,207
Originally Posted by wdchuck1
Does it really make a difference?? If this merger happens and FT benefits are cut, both DL and UA are going to be over AA/US Elites like sharks that smell blood.

The chances in real life is that the benefits will INCREASE and hopefully some other common sense changes in fare structures and other ways of doing business can be implemented that will keep the Elites in the AA/US camp
As the leader of a certain first world nation has proven, hope doesn't pay the bills. I'll continue to remain pessimistic with the hope that AA can emerge independent.
uxb is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:20 am
  #244  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles & Orange County, CA
Programs: Wouldn't you like to know?!
Posts: 23,822
Originally Posted by barelyelite
....

These are all good things, should this merger actually happen.
The new Continental Airlines will be called United Airlines, where the headquarters will be Chicago, IL.

Everything Continental will remain and we will gain all of United's route and of course, $misek will remain the CEO...

Oh wait, we are talking about US Airways "becoming" American Airlines...right, we all know what that means...
BlissWorld is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:21 am
  #245  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 7,710
Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge
This is moving closer and closer to a done deal but its not a deal until the paper are signed. Any number of things could derail this combination.
Anyone else thinking we should start a grass roots campaign to bankrupt LCC in the next 6 months to ensure they can't win over AA's creditors with a highly manipulated balance sheet? If anyone can undermine an airline's bottom line it's us... or maybe union leaders...
Ambraciot is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:21 am
  #246  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: DCA and STL
Programs: AA Concierge Key, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, National Car Executive Elite
Posts: 524
Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge
This is moving closer and closer to a done deal but its not a deal until the paper are signed. Any number of things could derail this combination.

We should not assume that the new combined FF (elite) program would be solely USAir. Parker should remember that AA has significant corporate business that pays for premium International flying. He will have two large competitors licking their chops to get that business.
Exactly, if Parker does what he did in the past, US will rename and brand itself as AA. The AA frequent flyer program would be the survivor. That's what he did when America West acquired US Airways. Although the headquarters and executive team was the America West team, the brand was renamed to US Airways and all America West frequent flyers transferred into the US Airways frequent flyer program. The one change that might occur with the frequent flyer program is the inclusion of a level in between AA Platinum and Executive Platinum. While AA has levels for 25K, 50K, and 100K, US has levels for 25K, 50K, 75K, and 100K. This would be needed for migration of Dividend miles customers into Advantage.
ksweeney is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:22 am
  #247  
uxb
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,207
Originally Posted by BlissWorld
The new Continental Airlines will be called United Airlines, where the headquarters will be Chicago, IL.

Everything Continental will remain and we will gain all of United's route and of course, $misek will remain the CEO...

Oh wait, we are talking about US Airways "becoming" American Airlines...right, we all know what that means...
+1!!! That's exactly my thoughts on this matter.
uxb is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:27 am
  #248  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt PLT
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by wdchuck1
Does it really make a difference?? If this merger happens and FT benefits are cut, both DL and UA are going to be over AA/US Elites like sharks that smell blood.
I'm not sure how the merger would cause any of us to lose our Flyertalk benefits.
DstnDavid is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:28 am
  #249  
uxb
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: JFK, DCA, BUR, YVR
Programs: AC, AS, BA, DL, HH (D), MR (T/LTP), UA (*S), UScAAre (PLT/1,87MM), WN
Posts: 5,207
Originally Posted by DstnDavid
I'm not sure how the merger would cause any of us to lose our Flyertalk benefits.
I saw that too, but gave the OP the benefit of the doubt, and assumed that he meant frequent traveller and not FlyerTalk.
uxb is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:29 am
  #250  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Plat (2MM), Hertz 5 star
Posts: 598
Originally Posted by wdchuck1
Does it really make a difference?? If this merger happens and FT benefits are cut, both DL and UA are going to be over AA/US Elites like sharks that smell blood.

The chances in real life is that the benefits will INCREASE and hopefully some other common sense changes in fare structures and other ways of doing business can be implemented that will keep the Elites in the AA/US camp
One would think someone with over 8mm AA miles would understand the difference between flying out of JFK, and flying out of DFW as home base. Clearly not. DL and UA are not attractive options to me
DallasAudiGuy is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:36 am
  #251  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York City
Programs: Delta Gold
Posts: 106
I do not favor a merger. But, Parker is making smart moves here by courting the unions and making promises to keep the American name and headquarters in Dallas. I do think the unions are saying this more to make a stand against management in order to gain leverage in negotiations rather than actually favoring a merger. However, I'm also sure that Wall Street will line up in droves to offer financing for any merger in order to collect the fee income. A merger becomes all the more likely as the momentum builds up for it.
BigAppleCoder is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:46 am
  #252  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home Airports: CAE/CLT
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, National Executive
Posts: 5,452
Originally Posted by BigAppleCoder
I do think the unions are saying this more to make a stand against management in order to gain leverage in negotiations rather than actually favoring a merger.
I hope so....
Gamecock is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:52 am
  #253  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PHX
Programs: AA Peon Gold
Posts: 2,915
I'll wait and see before I start complaining about the sky coming crashing down.

With a planned move to PHX, and AA still being my airline of choice, this might actually benefit me(assuming the combined airline keeps PHX as hub, which is a big assumption, IMO).
WRCSolberg is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:53 am
  #254  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: DFW
Programs: AA Plat (2MM), Hertz 5 star
Posts: 598
Originally Posted by BigAppleCoder
I do not favor a merger. But, Parker is making smart moves here by courting the unions and making promises to keep the American name and headquarters in Dallas. I do think the unions are saying this more to make a stand against management in order to gain leverage in negotiations rather than actually favoring a merger. However, I'm also sure that Wall Street will line up in droves to offer financing for any merger in order to collect the fee income. A merger becomes all the more likely as the momentum builds up for it.
I think I agree with this. I think this should be looked at from both a marketing and operational standpoint. American Airlines is just a significantly better brand than US Air is or will ever be. The brand equity built up is incredibly valuable, and the US Air management knows this. Operational issues are not the concern of most of the flying public
DallasAudiGuy is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2012, 10:55 am
  #255  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington DC
Programs: Premier Executive, Continental Platinum, SPG Gold, IHG Platinum, Velocity Gold, Alaskan MPV Gold.
Posts: 461
It's a long read but worth it.

APA President Captain Dave Bates [email protected]
10:08 AM (47 minutes ago)

Fellow pilots,

It was announced this morning that the three unions at American Airlines—Allied Pilots Association, Transport Workers Union and Association of Professional Flight Attendants, representing a total of 55,000 front-line employees—have agreed to support US Airways’ bid for a merger between American Airlines and US Airways. This endeavor has been underway for many months and your APA leadership has been in direct discussions with the senior leadership at US Airways since early March. In this letter, I want to explain why APA decided to support a merger, how the process came about, what the new American Airlines would look like, and provide a brief overview of what APA has already negotiated as the framework of a new collective bargaining agreement.

AMR’s Business Plan

The APA leadership does not believe that AMR’s business plan will produce an airline that is viable long term. I’ll just summarize with this: while AMR’s network and route structure have withered during the past decade, those at United and Delta have grown larger and stronger, resulting in the steady defection of American Airlines’ corporate accounts and vital high-value customers. A big component of AMR’s plan for restructuring is to force massive concessions on unionized employees to reduce them to below-market compensation. Another primary element is to rework the “Cornerstone” plan to try to bring in additional revenue by down-gauging AMR’s fleet and through dramatically expanded domestic code sharing. Combined with the substantially increased productivity management seeks and the large-scale outsourcing of pilot jobs that management envisions, the result would be a major loss of pilot jobs at American Airlines. The effects would be catastrophic, including further stagnation for a pilot group that has already suffered from the industry’s longest time to upgrade to captain.

Our Futures

Management has told us that we should be excited because AMR has ordered new aircraft and has options to purchase more. New aircraft orders — which primarily will go toward replacing our fuel-guzzling S80 fleet — do not constitute job security for our pilots. Most of the Wall Street analysts view American Airlines management’s efforts to achieve network parity with Delta and United as “too little, too late.” The same analysts also believe any such effort would probably destabilize an industry that has finally gained some meaningful degree of pricing power. We also need to be mindful of the fact that management intends to impose regional airline pay rates on large numbers of new Airbus aircraft—not an especially appealing prospect. So exactly how do pilots benefit from being displaced into much lower-paying equipment?

Management’s Vision for a New Pilot Contract

Based on management’s actions to date, their vision—quite simply—consists of rejecting our contract entirely. They are on the Harvey Miller high-speed train to terminate our contract in bankruptcy court (Miller was Frank Lorenzo’s lawyer at Continental and Eastern. He is now AMR’s lead restructuring attorney). Management has made no moves at the table that suggest any interest in trying to arrive at a consensual agreement. While APA has taken the high road and made every effort to negotiate in good faith, management has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt they’re not interested in reciprocating.

The New American Airlines

First and foremost, the combined carrier will be branded American Airlines, based in Fort Worth Texas and headquartered at CentrePort. It will be comparable in size and scope to Delta and United, with a robust domestic network capable of supporting significant international expansion. American Airlines’ relationship with oneworld will be maintained and strengthened. All of American Airlines’ aircraft orders with Boeing and Airbus will proceed. The former US Airways route system will be realigned with the American Airlines system to add more cities, more markets and better frequencies. The new American Airlines, under a lean, energetic and highly capable management team, will be able to compete on an equal footing to win back high-value customers. On the East Coast, which is the largest and most lucrative airline market in the world, American Airlines will go from No. 5 to a strong No. 1. In the Midwest, we will go from No. 4 to No. 1. In Miami, our dominance to South America will be enhanced by stronger East Coast traffic flows. For the first time in years, American Airlines will be in a position of strength in Chicago.

How Did We Get Here?

As your APA leadership has been emphasizing for some time, we are committed to evaluating all available alternatives to AMR management’s restructuring plan in an effort to provide a better outcome for our pilots. US Airways’ senior management has made no secret of their desire to further the process of industry consolidation by joining with American Airlines. For many months, a team from US Airways has been making presentations to various Wall Street analysts and investors, including one of APA’s advisers. After being briefed on the substance of the US Airways presentation, I initiated a dialogue with that airline’s leadership, which resulted in a series of meetings beginning last month. Their vision was compelling. Shortly thereafter, the APA Board of Directors was briefed and they gave a “thumbs up” to continue exploring a potential merger.

The Negotiations

When it started becoming clear that a merger with US Airways was a superior alternative to AMR’s stand-alone plan—and with the support from the APA Board of Directors—we assembled a team to begin substantive discussions with the senior leadership at US Airways. Accompanying me to Phoenix for those discussions were members of the APA Negotiating, Scope, Industry Analysis, Technical Analysis and Contingency Committees, as well APA’s General Counsel, bankruptcy counsel and a delegation from investment adviser Lazard. At this point, US Airways began discussions with the leadership at APFA and TWU, which had begun to evaluate this alternative course of action.

Working with US Airways, APA was able to achieve in just over a week far more than we had been able to achieve in more than five years of trying to bargain with AMR management. Our interaction with US Airways was in stark contrast to what we have been experiencing with AMR. We dealt directly with the people whose jobs are to run an airline. Many of the talks consisted of president-to-president interaction. In accordance with the APA Constitution and Bylaws, there were always two members of the APA Negotiating Committee present during these negotiations. Completely absent from the discussion were the posturing and game-playing that characterizes the approach AMR management takes when dealing with us.

Returning from Phoenix, we had accomplished a great deal toward constructing a framework for an agreement, but we still had several important unresolved issues to address. We convened a special APA Board of Directors meeting and the Board remained in session as the unresolved issues were negotiated. The APA Board of Directors then spent several days carefully studying and evaluating the plan of reorganization agreement. Upon the closeout of the last remaining issues, the APA Board of Directors voted unanimously to support the framework for a new CBA.

A New Collective Bargaining Agreement for the Pilots of American Airlines

APA has agreed with US Airways on a framework for a new collective bargaining agreement. Our agreement will be distilled into final contract language during the next 60 days and will be sent out for a membership ratification vote as specified in APA’s Constitution and Bylaws. Details on the specifics of the new CBA will be provided in a separate, upcoming communication from the APA Negotiating Committee. Please click here to access our special AA-US Airways merger page on the members’ side of alliedpilots.org. This page will be updated regularly as additional information becomes available.

A Good Day for APA

I would like to extend my personal thanks to the many APA officials and committee members who worked tirelessly to conclude this agreement. This includes my fellow National Officers, the APA Negotiating Committee, Scope Committee, Industry Analysis Committee, Pension Committee, APA Contingency Committee, Technical Analysis Committee, and last but certainly not least, the entire APA Board of Directors. All of these individuals have put in countless hours on behalf of their fellow pilots.

Still a Long Road Ahead

This merger, along with a new CBA and a much brighter future for American Airlines, is still far from certain. Chapter 11 restructuring is a difficult, complex process for all concerned.
I urge all pilots to stay informed and involved. We will keep you updated as events warrant.

In unity,
Captain Dave Bates
APA President
ckc123 is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.