jochen_vdk

After my 5th Alitalia flight being cancelled due to weather conditions, while other airlines could operate normally, I decided to file a EU complaint against Alitalia. Living in Germany, I filed the complaint with the German authorities. These transferred the file within one month to the Italian ENAC. One year and several e-mails and phone calls later, still no news from them. After writing to the European Commision about it, I got answer one week later.

ENAC, the Italian national enforcement body, states the flight has been cancelled due to adverse weather conditions at Malpensa Airport. It was the flight AZ 440 on 26.02.07. Indeed, a number of Alitalia flights have been cancelled that same day, all operated by Alitalia Express. All other flights from other carriers, with two exceptions, could depart.

Now, checking Flightstats, it shows for all canceled Alitalia Express flights between 9 and 12 am a status change from scheduled to canceled between 5 and 7 am UTC, most of them at 6.28 am.

I have no clue about weather forecasts and cancellation issues at airports, so I do not know how this is being handled. Can anyone tell me a bit more about the process? Is is possible that only flights from Alitalia Express were canceled due to weather conditions? Do they know this several hours before departure, even though at that time, all flights ran smoothly?

Although in this forum, people repeatedly have stated that airlines would not take the risk forging the flight stats, but this situation five times in a row seems difficult to believe. The attitude of the Italian National Enforcement Body does not give me the feeling the complaint has been handled in a correct way.

I would appreciate if someone with more insight could help me out!

Ocn Vw 1K

Let me move your Q. to our Alitalia forum for further discussion and assistance. Ocn Vw 1K, Moderator, TravelBuzz.

HIDDY

Can't give you an answer I'm afraid but I see they operate mostly regional sized aircraft which may be more disrupted by bad weather compared with larger sized aircraft due to their operating limitations in foggy weather.

Alice11

I can't provide specific info about that flight, but unfortunately I'm used to fly to/from Milan airports, and a delay for weather conditions over there is a very common issue , as well as the fact that often some airline get stuck due to "weather conditions" while others don't.

Really, I can't sort out why, but I'm afraid there's something wrong with the way SEA – the airport authority - has been managing airport operations…

So, firstly, AZ could have been really delayed, odd it may seem.

About the complaint, the body which is in charge for the complaint here in Italy it's ENAC, the National Civil Aviation Authority.
Anyway, I’m afraid you can only submit your complaint to ENAC - to local offices at airports or to the national office - if the airline fails to comply with the traveller charter of rights within 6 weeks from the day you filed the complaint with the airline itself.
That means that you should have filed a complaint with AZ, not with the Germany authority.

File a complaint with the airline > Wait 6 weeks > No compliance? Then submit a complaint to ENAC.

paffendorf

Alice, sorry to correct you but the time the airline has to answer the complaint should be 60 days, not 6 weeks
(btw, I think Alitalia doesn't answer neither in 6 weeks nor 60 days nor in 6 months and probably even 6 years is very arguable)

Alice11

Well, I checked out the ENAC website before posting, and they say "6 weeks".

http://www.enac-italia.it/documents/...tiPax5ediz.asp

BTW, whatever could be the term, unfortunately OP didn't follow proper procedure and now I wonder whether it makes sense to file a complaint and wait 6 weeks or 60 days with an airline going bust.

PS:
I filed a complaint with AZ only once, a couple of years ago. I got a very prompt answer. Although that wasn't satisfactory, it was enough to get me entitled to file a complaint with ENAC.

paffendorf

You're very lucky!:P
I filed some complaint and never got any answer.

RCyyz

I too find it odd that only AZ would cancel flights while others went on their way. Is there a way to find out what type of aircraft the AZ flights were supposed to be on and cross-reference with what aircraft the other airlines used that did depart? I'm not sure if that type of information is publically available. (Not that it's really secret or anything; I'm just not sure if the records are out there for public eyes.)

In the end though I'll bet it's something to do with AZ unions and AZ pilots being a little petulant by deciding not to fly in certain weather conditions. Yes this is a harsh judgement, but just look at how AZ unions killed the AF / KLM / AZ merger.

jochen_vdk

I have filed a complaint with the german customer service centre, I got answer within two weeks. Of course they told it was the weather and I was not entiteled to any compensation.
Then I filed with the German authorities, that transferred one week later to ENAC. Then more than one year no answer from ENAC, only after writing to the European Commission things went very fast.

Didi

The Germans would then say "Das ganze Gesetz ist ein zahloser Tiger"

Fendant

There are the following reasons why Alitalia cancels flights:

a) Bad weather in LIN or MXP ( 40% ) of the time
b) A strike of one of the lousy unions employees of SEA ( 40% ) of the time
c) its Friday and the weather forecast is good for the weekend, => too many union employees on sick leave ( 10 % )
d) CC or FO forgot their mobile phone at home ( 5% )
e) Italian national soccer team plays against the Faröer islands ( 1% )
f) Bag handlers arguing which is the best soccer team in Milan (3%)
g) AZ did not pay their vendors
h) AZ has filed for bankruptcy

In all other cases Alitalia schedules apply, which means that the flight will not leave before the indicated departure time.

Alice11

According to AEA, Association of European Airlines, AZ ranked # 3 in Europe for arrivals puntuality in Q1 2008, 83.7% of the flights.
1) Malev 85,9%
2) Czech 83,8%
3) Alitalia, Air France 83,7%

Some other airlines:


KLM # 09, 81,4%
Lufthansa # 12, 80,16%
Swiss # 13, 79,18%
BMI # 21, 75,4%
SAS # 22, 75,3%
TAP # 25, 74,00%
British # 29, 57,8%



Source: CONSUMER REPORT, 1st QUARTER 2008, AEA

fedefraaz

unfortunately mxp apt has been a trouble since 2000 for AZ. That's where all money and efforts went into, besides bad management.

Mxp has only 2 runways working and fog and rain is a big big issue for them. Plus they can't make some more runaways because of the alps that obstacle the taking off.

i know it's frustrating getting to know one's flight has been cancelled 5 times in a row...but the fact that other flights tokk off that day is not significant. it depends on the kind of aircraft on the route the slot priority etc etc..

as about the complaint, sorry to tell you airline companies don't take the responsability for avverse eather conditions...neither AZ nor.....anyone

jochen_vdk

Hi fedefraaz,

I have no problem with a cancellation based on weather conditions... if it's not safe it's not safe. But other airlines took off with similar planes (although not a lot use the ERJ's like Alitalia Express) and it seems to me very suspicious that almost all Alitalia Express flights got cancelled whereas all Alitalia and other carriers' flights could depart.

Furthermore I know that carriers are cancelling flights because of poor load and then explaining it was the weather or some technical defect... it happens often and it has happened often to me.

It was just frustrating to pay 500+ euros for a european flight five times in a row and get five cancellations for various reasons, within two months' time.

fedefraaz

...as far as i know...they don't cancel flights for poor load. at least not if the flight we're talking about is the only one departing that day.

...other than that...it's a bless mxp has almost been shutted down