Eastbay1K

They are already adding a row of Y on the entire 734 fleet, which is a large % of their entire fleet.

AndyPatterson

Thanks to all for your comments on the new cabin configurations, and comparisons with UA. The funny coincidence is that I was just about to post a query on this forum about the quality of AS flights from DCA to SEA and back, as I regularly fly United IAD-SEA, and wanted to know if AS was any better or different. However, I found this thread, which answered my questions.

It is faster for me to get to National Airport from my home/work than to Dulles, so AS out of National could be an alternative. I remember when AS launched its National transcon service, the papers had articles about how this was supposed to be a premier service, geared towards the Pacific Northwest Congressional delegation, lobbyists, etc.

However, your comments made me realize that AS is significantly downgrading its service on the transcons, both coach and first. I guess United will continue to get my money!

Savvy Traveler

Ugh. They finally got it to me 2 1/2 weeks after they lost it, and after I had to replace most of the contents.

Gardyloo

My only addition to this literate thread is that they better do something and quick - I was in F on a 737 SEA-SNA over the weekend and observed serious unchic-shabby conditions - seat pockets hanging by a thread, cuts in leather, serious scuffing, threadbarehood, and the guy in front of me tried to recline (into my orange juice) and only the right side of his seat back came back. Handy for his view out the window but not the intended angle I believe. If it had been me (I think I was the only rev passenger out of 6 in F) I would have been a little annoyed.

toadman

How many MVPG defections could UA handle w/o suffering elite benefits errosion? It seems if even 10%-15% defection of MVPG's to UA would create havoc for upgrades on West Coast routings.

I think before AS deals the death blow to the current FC cabin, they should seriously revisit the amount of FC upgradeable fares are being released at time of booking. I bet they left a lot of revenue on the table. Then again, maybe not. My 2 cents is that AS should have looked at upgrading the FC cabin and made it into a product that was worth upgrading to with cash or miles but I guess the bean counters are winning the debates in the halls of AS HQ.

I certainly will not make AS my first choice for booking business travel if they do away with the FC cabin, that includes changing it to an economy plus cabin. Just wait until JetBlue starts making in roads into Seattle, that will really put the screws to AS.

SEA_Tigger

Well MVPG mileage (40K) won't even get you mid-tier on UA (which requires 50K miles), and especially to/from SFO, there are a lot of top-tier UA flyers (100K+), so it may not make much of a difference except for any AS folk who fly over 100K right now and credit to AS.


I am going to reverse my general position and agree with this statement. I know many AS employees are saying "MVPGs aren't paying enough" and maybe most aren't. But when you don't give those who are willing to the option (by holding back too much inventory), then...

On transcons and all flights over 1500 miles, do U8 (leaving four open for sale). On 73G/734/MD80 flights under 1000 miles, do U10 (leaving two open for sale). On 739 flights, do U12 (leaving four open for sale).

If you consistently sell more seats (and by consistently, I mean more then 50% of the time that flight goes out with more then 2/4 paid F seats), then you hold-back more, based on the average (so if you sell 4 on average, that is what you hold back).

Announce this policy going into effect on November 1st, 2004. That way, holiday travellers (TG, XMAS, NY) have a shot at booking.

Then wait three months, maybe four.

If the majority of the time (75% or more), those U seats do not sell till the 72-hour or later, and for the lowest fares, then you know First Class is a loss leader whose only purpose is to get people to fly your airline a lot - at the lowest price possible. At that point, you can kill First and probably best go with the 3+3 with blocked middles to maximize volume per flight. You might as also well kill the transcons, and let AA/DL/CO handle those for you via codeshare while you handle their West Coast, Alaska, and Mexico travel via codeshare.

If, instead, you see 50% or more of those seats going for Q+, then you know your MVPGs weren't blowing smoke up your bum and ditching FC might not be such a hot idea, afterall.


Well if AS went back to certs/miles to upgrade (and left them at the current redemption levels) with improved service levels in terms of food and drink, it might fly. It would still be cheaper then UA (which charges 15K for an upgrade) on the West Coast runs, and generally match UA/AA on the transcons from cities other then LAX and SFO (where UA and AA run their fancy widebodies).

lalala

I could easily fly 50K on UA for Premex, being able to fly to NRT from SEA is a big draw for me. If UA would consider a NS to SAN I would very much consider "defecting".

My ANC/DUT/ADQ days are over, so I no longer need AS flights to AK.


lala

rjque

Based on prior representations by employees on this board, AS needs to withhold more than four seats for F sales on the transcons. Didn't someone say that AS is selling better than half of the F cabin on transcons? It's the West Coast flights that aren't seeing any F revenue.

I also think AS needs to hold back F inventory until much later in the process. Given the small difference between full-Y and F on these routes, AS is much more likely to sell an F seat the day before flight than it is to sell it weeks before-hand.

SEA_Tigger

Which is why I added the caveat that if you consistently sell more then 2-4 seats on a flight/route, then you hold those extra seats you do sell back.

Just because one day in May you sold five seats SEA-DCA doesn't mean that every other flight should be limited to U2, especially if U8 would earn you more Q+ fares. AS seems to think that "if we can sell that seat on one flight, we can sell it on every flight, so we better hold it back". Yet on many (most?) flights, that is not happening which is why the MVPGs and MVPs on sub-Q fares (and those willing to gamble on earlier clearance at Q+) are clearing with regularity.


Well, Y tickets are usually sold early (they know they will need the flexability) or late (they just found out they needed the flexability), but I can't see AS selling more then two Y seats per flight at less then 24 hours. And even if it is $100 more, many companies won't book in F. But I also accept and expect many of the pax would pay the difference on their own dime, so AS can leave two seats for F sale all the way till 20 minutes before boarding and clear them at the gate.

And, frankly, if Q+ sales are dead prior to 72 hours and you still have U6+, then at 73 hours take an extra two seats out of the U bucket before you start clearing Golds to see if you can sell them. If not, then no harm to the Golds (they were willing to wait, anyway), who will clear at the gate.

BOB W

Did anyone take pictures? If so, where can I view them?

Dudemon

I took my camera but didn't take any pictures. There wasn't anything to take a picture of. They used regular Y seats only spaced differently to demonstrate the 6 across configuration and they only had one bank of 3 seats to demonstrate what the 19" seat may be like for the 5 across configuration.