Punki

We have been MVP Golds for several years now and have really enjoyed our AS experiences.

This new program, however, is the pits. We have tried on fully 7 different occasions since 1/1/04 to buy two tickets to various locations, always willing to pay the extra money to upgrade. Not even once have upgrade seats been available even at the much higher price. Each of these tickets would have cost around $500 to $600 dollars and would have totalled about $8,000.00 had we concluded the purchase.

Because we couldn't get upgraded at the time of booking we went instead to UA and found that we could get seats for about half the cost and get upgrade at the time of booking. ^ No brainer.

On the one AS flight we have booked in the last two months (SEA/LAS), there are 10 open seats in first, but they aren't upgrading anybody because they think they might sell them--we booked two months or so ago and our flight is about 2 weeks from now. To further complicate matters, no one to whom I have spoken at AS appears to have a clue how the upgrade procedure works. I have had people tell me, well they will decide at the gate who gets upgraded, which really makes me feel good after I shelled out the extra money. If I wanted to play lottery, I would have just booked the cheapest flight and banked on our status to get us into first. This is just silly.

Here's the bottom line. We now have either flown or booked over 90,000 miles on UA for the year and have very few AS qualifying flights. We, in all likelihood, will not requalify for Gold and will not continue to fly AS. I can't believe that we are actually flying SEA/ANC on UA. It was, however, the exact same deal--we could pay twice for a chance to upgrade on AS or half for an upgrade at the time of booking on UA.

Is the money that AS makes or might make off of the possibility of selling one or two first class seats really worth the revenue they lose when long standing MVP Gold who would regularly buy "Q" fares, if they could get upgraded at the time of booking, just walk away?

What is really frustrating is that most AS agents to whom I speak assure me that even though they have made changes in their program, it is still better than any other program. Not!

SPIT

One thing you mentioned is true.... no one at AS has a clue how the upgrade procedures work. Ever AS agent you talk to gives you a different story.

On a recent CUN-SEA flight, there were 8 F seats available 72 hours before flight time. Normally an EASY upgrade as few MVP/G's fly that leisure route. If two seats are available, I always get them for me and my companion. With 8 seats, you'd think it was a sure thing. Furthermore, I had EXPENSIVE 'M' fare tickets (higher than 'Q') that would normally qualify me for a seat and any 'U' inventory been available at booking.

No upgrade happend, and when I arrived at the airport and told the agent my surprise, he said I should've arrived earlier, because people at the airport had purchased the upgrades or used miles earlier THAT DAY. He told he just sold the last F seat moments earlier! WHAT?!! I asked him why my upgrades didn't come through if seats were available. He checked, confirmed I was indeed on the waitlist, and shrugged. He didn't know why the auto upgrades didn't happen. He felt bad, but there was nothing he could personally do... all the seats were now gone!

Of course, the whole flight ended up being a nightmare. 2 hour late departure, 2.5 hour late arrival, no MVPG boarding (guess MVPG means nothing in Mexico), horrible bag re-check line during the LAX stopover, FA's took our blankets/pillows during stopover even though we had the "Seat Occupied" barf bags on the chair (none left after we re-boarded in LAX), AS checked an FA into the exit row aisle seat (love it when they do this) and she stows her bag in front of MY SEAT, because it's oversized and won't fit under hers. Then she actually complains when I ask her to move it, which she didn't, so I finally moved it myself into the overhead bin. GEEZ!! Oh, and they kept the plane extra cold because of turbulance, saying those who were getting sick liked it colder. Well, the rest of were miserable because we were freezing... especially since they took our blankets!

AS normally has decent service, but occasionally they just blow it on all levels.

sxf24

The 'new' system has worked for me, and I'm only an lowly MVP. I'm actually batting a thousand, including several flights to/from LAS. In all cases, I was automatically upgraded at the 48 hour mark. Some of the upgrades were requested, other were not.

smilee

I have noticed more AS crew sitting in first. On my return flight from Miami on Monday, I believe the two gentlemen were flight attendants from the conversation the flight attendant was having with them. Also on my return flight from Chicago, two weeks ago, there was a crew bag from the person sitting in 2D.

I agree, the new upgrade system is the pits. Sure glad I booked all of my flights for the year before the mid February deadline. My loyalty will likely change next year. I agree Punki, UA may be a better choice now for many.

AS Flyer

Just FYI - Alaska crew and off duty employees are NEVER put into First Class ahead of a revenue passenger that was willing to spend miles or money to get there, or in the case of MVPG or MVP, to use their status. The only exception to this are Pilots that are deadheading on a flight of more than four hours. The Pilot contract requires that they be booked in F if available on flights of more than four hours. Many Alaska employees are also Mileage Plan members. More and more we are purchasing tickets rather than trying to travel standby, as standby is such a risky proposition these days. I know of many employees that purchase tickets and then will use their own miles to upgrade prior to departure. You may see employees up there from time to time but be assured that they are not being allowed to use their First Class passes if there are revenue passengers that want to sit there and have some means of getting there. I'm sure that there are going to be those that insist they always see Alaska employees in F, but as a Flight Attendant that flies more than most that I know, I can safely say that it's rare to see any Alaska employees in First Class on nearly any flight these days. It's hard enough to get on in coach on many flights, First Class just isn't usually an option. I hardly ever have Alaska employees in First.

I also wanted to let SPIT know that the reason his pillows and blankets were not in the seats when they reboarded in LAX was because the airplanes are required to be thoroughly searched upon arrival into the USA. Nothing is to be left in the seats and anything that is left is to be confiscated by the security officials, all pillows and blankets are to be returned to their overhead locations as well. It's all international security and every airline does it. There is no way, short of bringing your own, to assure that you get a pillow and blanket on any of our flights. They are putting more on the aircraft these days but still we are not boarding one per person. That not withstanding, it is not right to keep the cabin temperature at temperature that is uncomfortable to the majority of the people on board. I wonder if more people were complaining that it was warm. Sometimes passengers are sunburned on the return flights from Mexico and are warm and want a cooler cabin.

missydarlin

For those of you who don't want to search for one of the other threads on the upgrade system.... I'm reposting Snowdevil's explanation here.

The key part to remember is that the new upgrade lists drop out of the system at 36 hours prior. If you haven't received your complimentary upgrade by then, whatever clears U inventory after that will be first come first serve.

rjque

The new system is most certainly not working as well for me, but I'm willing to give it a few more chances. I'm only an MVP but I had been batting 1000 for the last two years. That is until last Thursday, when my upgrade didn't go through on a 6:30 OAK-PDX flight. That flight has always been a difficult upgrade for MVPs because it's full of business travelers heading home after a day of work. However, I could usually snag a U seat by closely monitoring itn for available space within the 48 hour period. This time, there were three U seats when the 48 hour mark came but I was not upgraded - apparently three MVPs either paid a higher fare or were on the list before me. Under the old system I would have had one of those seats by calling just after midnight. Of course, coach isn't that bad in a bulkhead or emergency row, especially for a one-hour flight so I'm not ready to leave the airline over just that issue. However, given the new changes, and given UA's far superior route structure in California, I'd definitely consider leaving AS if UA would match the 50% mileage bonus for the lowest elite level.

There is one good aspect to the new program, at least for those who are diligent: the 36 hour technical issue with the waitlists provides a good opportunity for those who regularly check itn. Two weeks ago, I was flying SNA-OAK on a Sunday evening. About a week before the flight, itn showed F3 U0 A0 Y0 etc. for the flight, with the two prior flights showing as sold out. Needless to say, those last three F seats were purchased by business traveler long before the 72 hour gold window and nobody got upgraded. However, about 30 hours before the flight someone must have changed plans because the flight read F1 U1 A1 Y0. I called and was able to snag that seat, even though I'm sure there were several golds waiting on the list who were never upgraded. Not the best situation for the general flying public, but it definitely provides a distinct advantage to FTers.

Westcoaster

I have found as a lowly MVP that it is hard these days to get upgraded at time of ticketing when you are willing to pay the higher fare or pony up the miles. My number one reason for accumulating AS miles over the years has been to acquire redemptive upgrades at time of ticketing. Now that I can no longer do that (especially when 2 of us are flying together) I am changing my mileage acquisition habits, i.e. using my Hilton Amex instead of my AS Visa, deciding to not get AS miles for all my hotel stays, etc. I have also decided to not buy any additional AS tickets for the time being, just using up what I've already purchased. I understand that AS has to do what it thinks is best for itself, just as I need to watch out for my own best interests.

And I agree that AS staff on the phone and at the CTO give a variety of different responses when asked about upgrades. I believe that they are trying to help, but just aren't being given enough accurate info to do their job. It's not just AS that has this problem, though.

BLI-Flyer

Yes. I'm MVP Gold, booked a discount coach RT ticket SEA - DCA a month ago, got on the upgrade waitist and received outbound (DCA - SEA) upgrade confirmation 2 weeks before the flight, inbound (SEA - DCA) a week before the flight. The SEA-DCA leg is on Memorial Day and I was happily suprised to get the upgrade.

oldzink

I see this as a transition year. As was mentioned earlier in this thread many Golds bought all of their 2004 tickets before the Feb transition, thus limiting the upgrade inventory. Next year there will be none of this artifically high pre-booking. And I suspect that with the higher qualification levels there will be fewer MVP's and Golds competing for the upgrades.
This notwithstanding, I've batted over 90% this year as a Gold.

toadman

I can't see how a lot of golds bought tickets this year but I'm sure it has had a small impact to space availability in FC. My own experience has been worse than 2003. I flew 54 segments last year and was not upgraded on 5 of those segments. So far this year I have 26 segments and have not been upgraded on 5 of those. I will probably fly another 30 segments before the end of this year and would expect that I will have the same ratio of success. However, reading missydarlin's kind reposting of Snowdevil's prior post, I will try calling at the 36 hour window to see if that improves my upgrade chances on furture flights. Anecdotaly it sounds as if more revenue is being booked to the FC cabin this year so maybe we will see some improvements to amenities and food service next year. I know UA has already brought back some of the amenities and increased food service into FC. It appears that AS is lagging the competition these days.

hsmythe

As an MVPG, I've purchased and flown 7 RTs since the new upgrade system began (ie, these tickets did not involve MVPG upgrades in advance at purchase time prior to the changeover) and I've achieved 100 % upgrade success. These flights were all at high-demand times (Fri. and Sun. evenings, usually dinner time), on the cheapest advance-purchase tickets. All the upgrades cleared automatically at the 72-hour mark, without me lifting a finger. The trips were from SEA to LAX(2 RTs), SAN, SFO (2 RTs), SJC, and DEN.

As I've been curious, I've polled my friends, relatives, and associates on their success rate for tickets purchased and flown since the changeover. These 7 MVPs and 1 MVPG report essentially a 100 % success rate using just the automatic system (ie, no extraordinary efforts like arriving 4 hours early at the airport or calling hourly during the final 36 hours). These were also West Coast routes, with the cheapest advance-purchase tickets; the one and only upgrade failure reported was SAN-SEA by an MVP on a Sunday evening.

After qualifying as an MVPG every year since 1995 (I think that was the year), I have decided to reduce my AS flying by half and only qualify as an MVP during 2004. The reasons are:

1. the diminishing of AS MVPG benefits and FC service over the last few years (as has been fully discussed in this forum)

2. the high upgrade success rate under the new system I've observed personally and seen reported on this forum for MVP level elites on West Coast flights (I fly AS on these routes only; I fly NW exclusively for long-haul domestic and am NW Plat elite -- 75K flight miles per year).

P.S. From my inside confidential sources at AS: people far overestimate the number of MVPGs and MVPs on most AS flights, even very popular, peak-time flights; they see an army of passengers surge when FC boarding is called and an FC cabin with no empty seats and assume there must be 12, 20, 25 AS elites on board -- in fact, on nearly every West Coast flight, ALL MVPGs and MVPs receive their complimentary upgrade and there are still a half-dozen or more FC seats remaining, which are then released before departure to those willing to pay the gate upgrade fee (usually few for these 1.5 to 2 hour flights with little or no meal service in F) and those holding other upgrade eligibility (elite status on partner airlines like NW, AS employee, etc).

3. AS fares (especially advance-purchase) are just too high compared to the competition !

For next year, I plan to (a) request a comp to some elite level at UA, and then (b) shift half my normal West Coast business from AS to UA. I certainly don't intend to stop flying AS -- my plan is to simply "let AS and UA compete based on price" for each and every ticket purchase I make beginning in 2005. If AS is cheaper, I buy the AS ticket and utilize my MVP-level benefits, presumably including a very likely FC upgrade. If UA is cheaper, UA gets my money for that trip. Granted, I don't expect much in the way of FC upgrades with only low-level UA elite status, but it does entitle one to advance seat selection in UA's Economy+ section (35-36" pitch), and frequently an empty adjacent seat (based on reports in the UA FT forum); Economy+ is available on both UA's mainline and Ted aircraft. This UA premium coach seating compares favorably even with AS FC seating (36-37" pitch and a usually not especially comfortable FC seat itself).

Each year, I paln to fly enough West Coast flights on each of the 2 airlines to requalify for the lowest tier elite status (and continue my domestic long-haul flying on NW). I'm not overly concerned with elite bonus mileage accrual, just some basic elite benefits (I currently have plenty of miles in my FF accounts: 1.2 million at AS, 0.9 million at NW, and another 0.5 million spread amongst AA, DL and UA).

Some other thoughts:

Re transcons and other long-hauls, like SEA-LAX-CUN:

I can see why AS would want to seriously limit free upgrades until the last possible minute, as some folks would actually pay for FC on these long flights -- either a discounted F ticket, last minute or in advance, or a last-minute paid upgrade at the AS kiosk/ticket counter checkin ($ 150 each way), even holding back F seats until AS has exhausted every possibility of a cash upgrade and then releasing the remaining upgrades for free to AS elites at the gate. But for the shorter West Coast routes, how many would pay even $50 each way for a somewhat bigger seat and a $ 3.00 sandwich or salad at lunch or dinner times (and nothing other times) in FC on a 1.5 to 2.0 hour flight ? Certainly not me !

For Punki:

What routes are you trying to upgrade ? If long-haul domestic (and it appears you have mid or top level elite status at UA), I think UA is certainly your better option. If West Coast, then I think you're just trying too hard to get that upgrade in advance ... just let the automatic system do it's thing, and I think you'll be fine, just like myself and others I know.

For sxf24:

You mention that you were always "automatically upgraded at the 48 hour mark [as an MVP]. Some of the upgrades were requested, others were not." What's up with this ? I thought you were given the option of "opting out" (ie, not requesting) an upgrade when your eligibility time arrived (presumably for special cases where you don't want to be split from your family, or you really, really like the superior legroom of an exit row seat to that of FC seating, or similar). Why doesn't the AS computer honor your request "not to be upgraded" so-to-speak ? Have others experienced this ... upgraded against their will ?

johnp012001

How is it that you are getting all these upgrades on UA at time of booking? Paying for full fare tickets? Since they still give out the 500 milers, I find it is never worth upgrading. I'm Premier on UA, and I wouldn't want to waste my 500 milers on an empty plane, where I'd be perfectly comfortable in Coach. Of course, if the plane is full, then I don't stand a chance of upgrading as a lowly Premier. Especially since so many of there flights from PDX are 733 & 735.

Now on AS, I get unlimited (space available) upgrades. I've flown 17 segments this year. I've been upgraded on 13. 2 were SEA-EWR, where I think it is hard to upgrade even as a Gold. One segment was on a Bonus Ticket (got upgraded on one segment of the bonus ticket ), and one segment was just plain ole full. So, for the 2 segments SEA-EWR, not only did I NOT get upgraded, I got the dreaded row 11 on a 73G. Good thing I only paid $188 for that trip, AND I was earning double miles! The other 2 legs were in 6D and an exit row on an MD80.

12 segments on UA, 0 upgrades. E+ on 11 segments, which is almost as good as exit or bulkhead on AS.

So, I'd have to say, the new Upgrade system is working for me, and I'm just a lowly MVP!

Punki

We are both 1ks on UA as well as MVPG on AS. We automatically each get 8 Region 1 (basically North American) upgrades a year as well as 6 SWUs, and then get some extras along the way for good behavior on our part or problems with flights, etc., or sometimes they just show up for mysterious reasons. The Region 1 upgrades are confirmable at the time of booking and can be used on almost any fare at all.

In the instances to which I refer, I was trying to buy and upgrade transcons, except for one flight which was SEA/ANC. I am just too old and spoiled to take a chance on coach on a long flight. 1A is my seat and I want to know at the time of booking that I will get it. I am taking a chance with the SEA/LAS flight and am not at all happy with the results. Even the agent to whom I spoke said that she could think of no reason at all that they would be holding 10 seats in first SEA/LAS.

SPIT

Hmmmm... well the list dropping into never-never land at 36 hours is a problem that AS somehow needs to resolve.

I booked an 'M' fare to CUN (that's nearly a thousand $ all in, only made bareable because I also used a $50 companion ticket) and was on the waiting list. Somehow, the 8 seats remaining weren't released by the 36 hour mark. When I'm in the middle of no-where Mexico (literally) on vacation, I shouldn't have to make an international call (at 5am) to Seattle to mess with something that should be automatic.

But I suspect that's where things went wrong... and people who arrived at the counter on the day of flight, with no status, and cheaper tickets, got the seats instead of those of us on the waitlist.

AS Flyer: Thanks for the explanation on what happens with the blankets and pillows. Too bad... but apparently nothing AS can control. Funny, it's marketed as a "Direct Flight", or "1-stop service"... however, the who experience feels worse than most multi-airline connections. Part of that is TSA's fault... and part of it is just the mess of LAX.

As far as cabin temperature.... apparently on the previoius LAX-CUN leg, they experienced lots of turbulance, and some passenger became air-sick, which made them feel hot and sweaty and near passing out. So on the return, they announced the cabin would be kept cool and for people to put on sweaters or anything else they had! Funny, because we're in Mexico, and no has jackets, sweatshirts, sweaters, or anything like that with them. So there was a run on the blankets. Snagged 'em for the CUN-LAX let, but as I mentioned, lost them LAX-SEA... making that last leg miserable.

Do you know why some dead-heading FA's feel it's their right to store their bag under someone else's seat? I've seen this a few times... although this is the first time it's directly affected me. At a minimum, it'd be nice if they asked first... to which I'd reply "NO!" (I'm sure this is limited to a small number of FA's.... in fact, one of the working FA's was appalled by the situation herself.)