rjque

I'm trying to plan an international award trip to CDG and returning from AMS for a friend on NW this summer using AS miles and I have a few questions that I thought someone might be kind enough to answer. Here's what I'm trying to do:

I'm in SFO and my friend is in PDX. I'll be purchasing a ticket for myself and my friend will be flying on my miles. To avoid any misconnect problems, I'd like to have my friend fly down to SFO so we can start the trip together. On return, I'd like to travel on the same flight to a gateway city, but we can separate for flights back to SFO and PDX respectively. Here are my questions:

1. Even though NW flies from PDX to its international gateway cities, will I be able to book PDX-SFO on AS and SFO-DTW-CDG on a single NW award ticket? The mileage program guidelines say that travel to and from any partner's gateway city will be provided solely by AS if that partner doesn't fly from your origination point � implying that this would only be possible if NW didn�t fly from PDX. But, since the language seems directed at preventing AA/BA mixes rather than preventing my situation, I thought I�d ask.

2. If the above is possible, is the AS segment subject to saver award availability? (W class, I think?)

3. Are there any limits on the number of segments that one can fly on a partner airline? I�m not finding anything AMS-SFO or AMS-PDX for mid-July � but if I try AMS-MEM, and then MEM-SFO I get a number of workable routings. The problem is, this only works if I route AMS-MEM-MSP-SFO-PDX. That seems like a lot of segments (great for me, though). Is there a limit on segments?

4. Assuming AMS-MEM-MSP-SFO-PDX routing is legal, is there a problem forcing a stopover on an open jaw ticket? The MSP-SFO flight gets in at about 11:30 p.m. � too late for the last flight of the day so my friend would have to fly SFO-PDX the following morning. Will this be a problem on a ticket that has an open jaw? (PDX-CDG, AMS-PDX).

5. Finally, is there a problem mixing KLM and NW metal on a partner award ticket? We may fly SFO-AMS-CDG on KLM metal and then the balance on NW metal.

Ideally I�d like to just feed the partner rep the flight numbers so it would help to know if there will be problems before hand. Thanks in advance for any help!

missydarlin

1. Yes you can route your friend through SFO on the award.

2. Yes

3. No limit on segments, but I'm not sure where you are finding award availability. What NW/KL shows available for their own members may not be necessarily available for their partners.

4. forced stopovers are ok as long as they are truly forced. You are asking to be routed through SFO. So unless there is no other routing that will get your friend to PDX without a stopover, its not forced.

5. No

rjque

Thanks for the quick response! I'm finding availability using the WPAA lister - hopefully NW/KLM doesn't hold back too many seats for its own members. If so, AA has lots of T availability.

missydarlin

KL is the worst for holding seats back actually. And AA doesnt fly to AMS

JONEZY00

I believe Continental has a Nonstop to AMS from Houston....might work for you...

jkc22

Sort of related, but regarding BA redemption awards. I hope someone can answer it.

If I want to go from SFO to JNB on BA (Club World), would I be able to get stopovers in the US as well as in Europe? Also, are double open jaws allowed? I'm thinking about 1 stopover on the way to Europe in JFK, and on the way back in MIA, and stop over in LHR and enroute open jaw in Europe, from CDG to Africa and stop in JNB, open jaw in Africa, then back from CPT to Europe for a stopover in LHR. Would this theoretically be allowed on one single award?

Something like:

SFO-oJFK-oLHR-//-oCDG-xLHR-oJNB-//-oCPT-oLHR-oMIA-oSFO... ?

pdxasflyer

I think missydarlin answered your questions well. I just have one small aspect to add that might help.

If you're working with AS Partner desk, expect Great Service. In 2001, and on AS Miles, and going First, this was our itinerary:
PDX-SFO on AS
SFO-LHR-CDG on BA
MAD-LHR-LAX on BA
LAX-PDX on AS

This September we're going to South Africa:
PDX-SFO on AS
SFO-LHR-JNB on BA
JNB-LHR on BA, with a 2-day break
LHR-SFO on BA
SFO-PDX

We even had to make date changes after we first booked the award and the Alaska Partner Desk folks were absolutely stellar performers. The best service, hands down.

Good luck, and have a fantastic trip!

pdxasflyer

I really think they would limit you to one of each (1 break, and 1 open jaw overall). BUT, that said, when we went to Europe in 2001 on an AS Award (flying on both AS and BA), as stated in a reply to rjque, we were allowed to do the following:
PDX-SFO-LHR-CDG // MAD-LHR-LAX-PDX

Hope that's helpful, at least a little.
Cheers!

missydarlin

jkc22

One Stopover OR one open jaw is allowed. The route you are trying to do can't be done on AS mileage at all.

The closest you could come would be to use 3 awards one for SFO-JFK round trip, one for JFK-MIA round trip, and one for JFK-JNB(with stopover in LHR) round trip. This would still require that you get your own transpo LHR-CDG and back, and JNB-CPT and back.


[This message has been edited by missydarlin (edited 05-08-2003).]

jkc22

Thanks Missy. I guess my other question would be if a "gateway" stopover and a "hub" stopover would be included in addition to the one stopover/one open jaw rule?

In the case with CX awards on AA miles, I was able to redeem with 2 "gateway" stopovers, 2 "hub" stopovers, and a double open jaw, all in one award. Consequently I redeemed the following with one award:

SFO-oJFK-xYVR-oHKG-oBKK//-oSIN-oHKG-oLAX-oSFO...

JFK and LAX are �gateway� stopovers, two �hub� stopovers in HKG, and one open jaw at BKK. This award only cost me 135K in F.

So, on AS awards, would a �gateway� city like EWR or MIA be allowed free stopovers since I would do SFO-xSEA-oEWR-oLHR-Africa on the outbound and Africa-oLHR-oMIA-xSEA-SFO on the inbound, and a �hub� city LHR for BA be allowed stopovers? As you can see, my strategy is to �maximize� the value of my awards here.

[This message has been edited by jkc22 (edited 05-14-2003).]

missydarlin

No. One enroute stopover or one open jaw...period. On with a BA award you could the stopover in London or the Alaska gateway city.

westcoastman

I am not sure why Alaska has it's own rules for partner awards. BA allows both open jaws AND layovers. I usually fly into London for a stopover, then on to another European city. I then fly back out of a third city and immediately stop again at the London airport for over 4 hours to shop duty free and eat at LHR all for 40K. AS Partner desk will not allow me to stop in London AND also have an open jaw and when I finally leave via London I don't even get 90 minutes at LHR because I am forced to use the tightest connection possible through London because over 4 hours is considered a stopover.
I guess it is up to AS to set their own rules but I do not know why they have to be so much more strigent than the airline they are actually booking though.

[This message has been edited by westcoastman (edited 05-15-2003).]

jkc22

On an extremely long itinerary e.g. US-Europe-Africa or US-Europe-Australia, having the restriction of only 1 stopover OR 1 open jaw greatly diminishes the value of the award. Somehow the low redemption levels for BA awards are no longer attractive - perhaps that's why they are offered at such low rates (only 160K for BA F to Africa for AS vs. 250K for AA)?

When the CX awards are ready for redemption, would this 1 stopover OR 1 open jaw rule apply? CX has a very generous routing policy on award tickets originating from the US (see above with AA awards), I do hope AS will keep that policy.

westcoastman

BA also has a generous routing policy so I am sure AS will also only allow ONE stopover/open jaw on CX.

missydarlin

Alaska doesnt have its "own rules". The rules are established by the Partner carrier. But considering its only 20k more to get all the way to Africa in FC than it is to go to Europe in the high season, I think its a great deal.