OZtrav

Thanks, this is helpful. CX is showing flight from YVR/JFK the next day so I will ask if they can put me on one of those. Though if they have to ask CX for inventory, I wonder if they can also ask KE so I don't have to add a connection. I suppose it is up to AS/CX/KE.

OZtrav

Out of curiosity, how is a similar issue handled when a partner cancels their flight to a city that AS does serve?

AS does not fly to Europe or Asia, so when a partner cancels such international flights, AS cannot get the passenger to the destination on its own. Sure it could fly them to another US city on its own metal, but wouldn't AS always have to depend on its partners and work with them to get people to their destinations?

I am not sure how much the fact that AS does not serve YYZ is relevant. People suggest positioning flights, but even in those cases, wouldn't AS need to ask CX to open up inventory from those cities to HKG?

OZtrav

Even if the tickets were paid for with cash, wouldn't it still be up to the airlines to follow the law or not? If they cannot/do not accommodate, I would have to arrange flights on my own and sue them, or get some vouchers with strings. Some airlines didn't even offer refunds.

If you paid for the tickets with cash, are airlines suddenly going to be much more accommodating? That certain isn't what happened in the last 20 months. At least paying with miles I can easily get a refund. No?

eponymous_coward

If you paid with cash, you can use the cash to get a different set of flights if you are refunded. If you paid with miles, it’s up to award availability, pleading for help, or your ability to pound a table and argue laws, sue airlines or whatever.

AS does not control other airline award availability, what exactly do you expect AS to do if KE says “we’re not opening awards and this isn’t our problem, go pound some sand”? If it’s “buy me a ticket” you can see why they might be a little reluctant to do that. Conversely, AS can go to CX and say “uh, you hosed our ticket, little help here?” Better chance of that working.

The point of having AS actually serve your city is they DO control their own award availability on their own flights, so they can make a seat available to a partner gateway. It’s a lot easier if you have your choice between any one of 10 or so US cities and partners (some of which may have open award space) than one KE flight. Better chance of coming up with an award seat. So that is why I asked about flexibility. Flexibility helps make this a win win in a situation that isn’t entirely under their control (unless you want to do an inflexible “I’ll buy a ticket and sue you” path, in which case, enjoy).

OZtrav

Well I would have the cash under the miles scenario since I used points in the first place, but it's obviously not great to pay for tickets with cash last minute under either scenario. At least I don't have to wait for a refund.

Sounds like AS has no power other than to ask its partners nicely, and it's really up to CX/KE. I am reading that AS thinks its above the law of Canada (just like how AC does not care about the DOT rules).

I don't see much value in telling others how using points is asking for trouble or suing does not work. I didn't come here to sue or expect to sue anyone lol.

eponymous_coward

Let me see if I can explain this with an analogy.

You’re in a bar. Your friend CX knocks your drink over. You ask CX to buy you another drink.

You’re in a bar. Your friend CX knocks your drink over. You ask a random stranger who didn’t knock anyone’s drink over (KE) to buy you another drink.

Which of these is more likely to work at getting you another drink?

OZtrav

The return I have booked is actually HKT-ICN-YYZ with KE, and KE cancelled the HKT-ICN leg so I expected that they would try to put me on BKK-ICN instead.

But I'll ask AS if they can make the following happen instead:

YYZ-ICN-BKK with KE
HKT-HKG-YYZ with CX

eponymous_coward

Good luck…

OZtrav

Thanks, I'll need it lol

mixmastermark

If it were me, before calling I would try to find any suitable backup or alternate routings/airlines to feed to the agent, including repositioning, in case they're not quite up for the task.

Also, if you were able to somehow get both your inbound and outbound itineraries on KE, as a roundtrip instead of a one-way, perhaps could save you a chunk of AS miles. One-way KE awards are priced as roundtrips in AS miles, I believe.

Best of luck either way.

Flying for Fun

True, but if booked as a return, you only pay 1/2 the miles for the KE flights. The return need not be on KE.

1. One-way Korean Air award bookings are charged the same number of miles as round-trip travel. Korean Air flights, when used one-way in combination with Alaska Airlines or another partner airline to create a round-trip itinerary (routing restrictions apply), will be charged half the applicable Korean Air round-trip miles. If any part of a round-trip itinerary is flown on Korean Air, it becomes ineligible for any refund of the unflown portions.

James

stevendorechester

So a couple of things to keep in mind:

I just went through something like this having an AA award ticket re-issued in advance to an AC full revenue ticket.

It would be very hard to get AS to re-route BUT very easy to get CX to do so.

A lot of posters are talking about award availablity.
This is irrelevant under Canadian law. Milleage tickets are the same as cash bookings.

A lot of posters are saying that the ticketing carrier is responsible for advance ticketing. Again under Canadian law both the ticketing and operating airline are jointly and severally liable. The law covers all flights to or from Canada, including a domestic flight in another country if through ticketed.

OP could simply chose to only deal with CX, email them a copy of the law and give them a choice to either obey the law or face being sued and brought before the CTA. Cathay cannot simply blame this pandemic for refusing to obey the law. The pandemic does not prevent them from purchasing full fare tickets on other airlines.

Canadian based airlines are well aware of the law and I know that agents are empowered to move rebook passengers on any airline that would keep them in compliance.

eponymous_coward

It’s not Cathay’s ticket to control and change at the moment so they won’t touch it. You can wave “jointly and severally liable” all around and harrumph and bluster at CX’s counters in YYZ all you like. Feel free to see how that works out. But suing an airline because of liability doesn’t actually get you on a plane- the point is to end up in an airplane not a courtroom.

Given that OP’s ticket actually seems to be screwed up on BOTH sides of the trip due to cancelled service (imagine that, who could have known that Thailand’s erratic and illogical policies on tourism during COVID would completely crater demand) and involves multiple airlines, it’s appropriate to actually work with the issuing carrier to sort it out. Maybe try that.

flyingstudent

Both CX and AC is down to once weekly on YYZ-HKG in Nov/Dec. Tons of last minute covid cancelation as border is still closed in HKG. CX will reprotect you on their next available flight to HKG but it may not necessary connect to three times weekly HKG-BKK (based on Nov schedule).

You are booked on an AS ticket (027 issued) and AS's COC applies, not CX's.

I personally think you should save the energy and cancel and get refund of taxes. Save the miles for later when pandemic is over and airlines will fly their full schedule.

freed0m

I don't know what's the intention of the said Canadian law. But when it is jointly and severally liable, it is hard to get the parties to accept responsibilities and act.

Imagine that Malaysia Airlines issues an award tickets on Japan Airlines on YYZ-TYO. Canadian law is toothless to Malaysia Airline as it does not give a damn about what the Canadian law is.

Canadian law is better if it defines liability on operating carriers like EU261. It is clear and the operating carriers have an incentive to comply to the law instead of pushing liabilities around.