Flying for Fun

Precisely! This is my point. AS has said that they are removing change fees, permanently. Some are interpreting that to mean they will have carte blanche flexibility to make unlimited changes and cancellations, flipping Alaska Dollars in and out of a virtual wallet once the current waivers expire.

A ticket change is not the same thing as a ticket cancellation! AS has not said that they are removing cancellation fees, permanently. The current cancellation fee is $125, the same as the change fee was. AS could change the cancellation fee to any amount they see fit, even $0. While a $0 cancellation fee would effect the utility of waived change & cancellation fees that Gold Level Elite members enjoy for everyone, it doesn't guarantee
permanence. Simply announcing an increase in the cancellation fee, even to $25, would effectively impose a fee on unallowable changes, a fee that Gold Level Elite members would still have waived. Imposing a cancellation fee, even at $0, is very much different than permanently removing that fee.

Implemented with the CARES act, nobody is paying the 7.5% Excise tax on commercial passenger service. Does that mean they permanently removed the tax? Of course not, the tax is still imposed but the imposed tax is currently zero percent.

James

Duane Haas

I have a partner award booking and I am having a difficult time finding the rules for this change currently. Are change fees waived for an AA flight on 01/05/2021 from Mexico? Thanks!

Single_Flyer

At this point I assume you are trolling. You are saying that Alaska is going to lower the cancelation fee to $0 instead of simply removing the fee? Even if they did that... who cares. $0 fee = no fee

A bottle of water that costs me $0 is free.

alphaeagle

I think you are misunderstanding. They didn't say Alaska was lowering the cancellation fee to $0. They were saying that if they did, it would be more of a temporary thing that they could adjust again easily to any dollar amount. Permanently removing a cancellation fee would take more effort to do, and then to reverse if they decided to. There is a difference. At least that's what I think as well.

Until there is clarification or the actual policies are in place, we don't know what keeping the cancellation fee means at the moment.

Flying for Fun

At this point, I assume you are incapable of understanding the difference between a change and a cancellation with respect to tickets issued for passage within the airline industry. Is that how a troll should reply?

"You are saying that Alaska is going to lower the cancelation fee to $0 instead of simply removing the fee?"

Here's the "thing!" AS has never said they are removing the cancellation fee. AS has two fees. 1) A change fee & 2) A cancellation fee. Both of those fees are $125, separate and independent of each other. When we talk about fee waivers for Gold Level Elites, the change/cancel waiver covers both fees as appropriate.

Everyone probably knows that you can change or cancel a ticket free of charge within 24 hours of purchase. Many may not know that if you change the ticket you cannot also cancel the ticket within that 24 hour window fee free. The $125 cancellation fee would apply because the "one" fee waiver was consumed on the change.

So what do we know? AS is removing change fees, permanently! That is it! Nothing more! If you think that means you can also cancel a ticket without a fee, you are likely to be disappointed.

"Even if they did that... who cares. $0 fee = no fee"

Nobody, I guess, until the fee is no longer $0. The current waivers have temporarily reduced both the change fee and the cancellation fee to $0. Hence "waivers," (plural) not a single all encompassing waiver (singular) are currently in effect. We know AS has removed the change fee permanently but what happens to the temporary $0 cancellation fee once that waiver expires?

Why the need for any waivers now if the permanent removal of the change fee means what you "think" it means? If it did, then a, "we have removed change fees on Main & First Class tickets permanently, Saver ticket changes will be allowed through December 31st, 2020," should suffice, shouldn't it?

Oh! A bottle of water to you without a charge, isn't without a cost! Think about that!

James

ashill

It’s the difference between keeping the toll booths in place on a highway but setting the toll to $0 and completely removing the toll booths. It’s significantly easier to reinstate non-zero tolls in the first case than in the second. Obviously not impossible in either case, but more difficult.

NYC Flyer

Under the curent policy, the current "cancellation" fee ONLY applies if a passenger want to exchange the ticket's value for a wallet credit, less the "cancellation" penalty.

Otherwise, the reservation can be cancelled and the passenger may exchange the ticket for future travel at full value, less the penalty at a later date.

From my perspective as a travel agent, It simply makes no sense that AS will require anyone to rebook immediately to avoid a fee for taking wallet credit, since the penalty can be deferred by retaining the ticket (vs accepting a wallet credit) until it is used later. Since there are now no "change fees", the change penalty is now ZERO.

Hypothetical phone conversation if "cancel fee" still applies:

AS agent: "I can cancel your reservation and ticket for $[125] and deposit the residual amount in your alaska.com wallet for future use, or I can cancel your reservation and you can exchange your ticket for travel within one year without a penalty".

Passenger: "Ummm, I guess I'll exchange it later"

AS agent: "OK, great!, I will email a copy of your original receipt. You will need the 13 digit ticket number to exchange the ticket when you're ready to travel".

Passenger: "OK, why is there a fee for the first scenario, but not the second?"

AS agent: "I know it's confusing, but the company has waived ticket change fees, but not the cancellation fee for receiving a wallet credit. I apologize. We are constantly telling management that passengers are perplexed by this."

Passenger: "Oh well, as long as I can reuse the ticket without a fee later, I guess it's the same thing. Thanks!"

...If this is the customer service nightmare AS chooses to pursue, I will be very, very shocked.

ashill

And I don't know specifically about Alaska, but isn't it generally true that the cancellation fee has to be new money, not deducted from the residual value? So the part of the conversation you didn't include is if the customer really wants the funds in the wallet, for a $300 ticket, instead of getting $175 in the wallet, the agent asks for the credit card to charge $125 and then puts $300 in the wallet. That would be a very real difference between a cancellation and change fee if AS does keep it (which I agree is unlikely).

Flying for Fun

No disagreeance here!

Another Hypothetical phone conversation if "cancel fee" still applies:

AS agent: "I can cancel your reservation and ticket for $[125] and deposit the residual amount in your alaska.com wallet for future use, this affords you the greatest flexibilty, or I can cancel place your reservation on hold and you can exchange your ticket for travel within one year without a penalty for the same passenger(s)".

Passenger: "I am not sure I will be able to use my reservation at a later date, can I exchange my ticket and let someone else fly?"

AS agent: No, changing the name on the exchanged ticket is not permitted. If you cancel your ticket, I can deposit the funds, less the cancellation fee of $X into your wallet and you can purchase a new ticket in a different name."

Passenger: "Ummm, I guess I'll exchange it later"

AS agent: "OK, great!, I will email a copy of your original receipt. You will need the 13 digit ticket number to exchange the ticket when you're ready to travel". "Please be aware that the exchanged ticket must be for the same passenger(s) and will be subject to any fare difference. The ticket also has no risidual value once it is exchanged. If the new ticket has a higher fare, we will need to collect the difference when you exchage it and you can use any wallet funds you may have at that time. If the new ticket has a lower fare, no credit will be provided and the unused value will be forfeited."

Passenger: "OK, why is there a fee for the first scenario, but not the second?"

AS agent: "I know it's confusing, but the company has waived ticket change fees, but not the cancellation fee for receiving a wallet credit. I apologize. We are constantly telling management that passengers are perplexed by this."

AS agent: "We understand that changes can happen and you may not be able to travel as ticketed. For peace of mind, AS has removed change fees so that you have some flexibility even if you don't know when or where you will be traveling now. If your ticket isn't eligible for a change or you have multiple tickets that you may not be able to use, you can "cancel" those tickets and deposit the ticket value, less the $X cancellation fee, into your wallet. This will give you greater flexibilty.

Passenger: "Oh well, as long as I can reuse the ticket without a fee later, I guess it's the same thing."

...If this is the customer service nightmare AS chooses to pursue, I will be very, very shocked.

It is all Hypothetical until we know what constitues an "allowable" change where the fee has been removed, permanently. I don't think the intent is to reintroduce a "price guarantee."

James

Flying for Fun

Until a * directs me to the fine print, I will remain skeptical. I won't assume it will be carte blanche until it is. I am a fine print fan, preferably without ambiguity which is often purposefully sprinkled in.

It is like the late night "medical coverage" commericials where the announcer finally declares authoritatively "IT'S FREE" call now. The coverage isn't free, but the call is. As long as they don't charge to take your call, its free, right?

What does removing change fees, permanently really mean?

James

Loose Cannon

If they would only do away with first and second checked bag fees.

Deltahater

I am curious about that myself. If partner awards are covered, I would start making 2021 booklings now

Boraxo

its OT but I support bag fees. These are super easy to avoid (either with elite status or a credit card) and the fees rack up millions per year which means fares are lower for the rest of us. Plus I rarely check luggage anyway.

Flying for Fun

Still Off Topic, but AS may consider waived baggage fees to their international destinations on non Saver fares. Most airlines allow at least one checked bag on international routes in non "basic" Main.

..... back!

Change & cancellation fees generate billions of dollars in revenue annually for US airlines. Ultimately something has to replace that, most likely increased fares. Even $5 on 50% of AS' last year's passenger volume would generate $110,000,000. Reducing the chesse platter size by 7g (¼ oz) could also save millions over the year.

James.

ashill

Staying off topic: not on the short haul international routes that AS flies. AA, for example (the one airline I checked) has the same checked bag fee to Canada, Mexico, and Costa Rica (the three foreign countries AS serves) as on domestic flights.

Kinda sorta back on topic: That network difference is of course why AS made the elimination of the change fee apply to all AS flights instead of just domestic (United) or domestic plus itemized short haul international flights (AA and DL).