A possible mini hub in east coast (JFK)?
Mar 23, 2017, 4:14 pm
#16
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SEA
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While, as already brought up, they're absorbing VX and trying to make themselves the main player in California? No way in hell.
Mar 23, 2017, 4:39 pm
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
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Posts: 20,391
What you are requesting is out of the bound of a reasonable customer requirement. What I am proposing is not. That is a big difference.
BTW: Alaska just made an announcement today that they are building a lounge in JFK. It is a good step to make more visibilities is east coast. An east coast hub is not far away.
BTW: Alaska just made an announcement today that they are building a lounge in JFK. It is a good step to make more visibilities is east coast. An east coast hub is not far away.
Mar 23, 2017, 8:34 pm
#18
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,956
I don't think there will be a "hub" in the traditional sense of the word, but I think JFK stands to gain quite a bit more traffic on AS as they fold the VX operation into it and expand their reach to the west coast. They are building a lounge and I think you'll see more announcements concerning JFK as the months go by. Some of them may involve flying that doesn't stretch all the way to the west coast.
Mar 23, 2017, 11:27 pm
#19
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
I think this issue was talked about at great length in another thread about AS establishing an EC or Midwest hub, and the consensus was it was not doable unless AS was willing to bleed cash for a considerable amount of time.
Establishing anything else at JFK is nearly impossible as slots are hard to come by and those with slots aren't giving them up anytime soon, at least in sufficient numbers to make it work.
BOS is a bloodbath already with B6 and DL & AA vying for number 2
PHL is AA
EWR is UA
LGA no slots and perimiter
DCA see above
IAD is UA
BWI is WN
CLT is AA
ATL is DL
CHI is a bloodbath
Basically any city that has enough OD to make a hub work is already taken. They could try RDU but I think that would cause an even further build up by DL there. And DL could spool up RDU faster than AS could too.
They could try to go into a former hub like PIT, MEM, CLE but they were all de-hubbed for a reason
Couple that with little name recognition East of DEN and that's a recipe to lose a ton of money.
Now if they want to see if we can get a AS/VX/B6 mega merger and for AlaskaBlueVirgin then you've got an airline capable of competing with the big 4.
Establishing anything else at JFK is nearly impossible as slots are hard to come by and those with slots aren't giving them up anytime soon, at least in sufficient numbers to make it work.
BOS is a bloodbath already with B6 and DL & AA vying for number 2
PHL is AA
EWR is UA
LGA no slots and perimiter
DCA see above
IAD is UA
BWI is WN
CLT is AA
ATL is DL
CHI is a bloodbath
Basically any city that has enough OD to make a hub work is already taken. They could try RDU but I think that would cause an even further build up by DL there. And DL could spool up RDU faster than AS could too.
They could try to go into a former hub like PIT, MEM, CLE but they were all de-hubbed for a reason
Couple that with little name recognition East of DEN and that's a recipe to lose a ton of money.
Now if they want to see if we can get a AS/VX/B6 mega merger and for AlaskaBlueVirgin then you've got an airline capable of competing with the big 4.
But, seriously, there is no way on earth that AS will have a hub in a city that doesn't touch the Pacific Ocean or major river that flows into the Pacific anytime soon.
That's why they have their AA partnership and DL partnership (for another month and a week).
Mar 24, 2017, 10:47 am
#21
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Location: Seattle, WA
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I would be more impressed if they worked on building a club or figuring out where to partner at IAD. The Virgin and Alaska gates are near each other and other than enjoying a smash burger and a fro yo before the flight, there is pretty much nothing much happening and there are a ton of club options in the international terminal.
Since only AS lounge members can enter the guest lounges, there can't be that many people coming in daily- not like the overrun mess that is now the D lounge in Seattle.
Since only AS lounge members can enter the guest lounges, there can't be that many people coming in daily- not like the overrun mess that is now the D lounge in Seattle.
Mar 25, 2017, 11:26 am
#23
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
Not just for me. I choose DL's 12noon FLL-SEA over AS's early morning or late afternoon flights because of its convenient schedule. Many family with small kids prefer it too. It is a valid feedback from customers. AS did not do it before before it couldn't. Now it has ability to make it possible, of course I would suggest it.
You can't just leave an airplane parked for a good chunk of the day because the schedule might be better. The DL departure is likely on an aircraft that did a shorthaul into FLL in the morning, and as AS have no shorthauls into FLL, they can't afford to waste the aircraft for 3-4hrs of prime flying time.
AS38 SEA 0835-1718 FLL
AS921 FLL 0710-1100 SEA
The next day departure is likely so they can use the same crew and not have to have a crew waiting in FLL already having spent 24 hrs there.
Mar 25, 2017, 11:42 pm
#24
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: PDX
Programs: AS DL
Posts: 9,038
Prediction:
AS will beef up LAX and SFO in 2019.
JFK will see more service to more cities in 2021.
IAD will see more service to more cities in 2025.
PIT will be a focus city in 2029 and later a hub.
By 2030, AS will have a lot of service in ANC, SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, PIT, JFK, IAD, and some service in DAL. DAL will be gate limited so it won't be a hub. It could be AA's proxy.
FT usually frowns on reviving old threads but I would be happy if some did so for this thread in the year 2026.
AS will beef up LAX and SFO in 2019.
JFK will see more service to more cities in 2021.
IAD will see more service to more cities in 2025.
PIT will be a focus city in 2029 and later a hub.
By 2030, AS will have a lot of service in ANC, SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, PIT, JFK, IAD, and some service in DAL. DAL will be gate limited so it won't be a hub. It could be AA's proxy.
FT usually frowns on reviving old threads but I would be happy if some did so for this thread in the year 2026.
Mar 27, 2017, 12:16 pm
#25
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Not just for me. I choose DL's 12noon FLL-SEA over AS's early morning or late afternoon flights because of its convenient schedule. Many family with small kids prefer it too. It is a valid feedback from customers. AS did not do it before before it couldn't. Now it has ability to make it possible, of course I would suggest it.
Mar 27, 2017, 4:14 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ANC
Programs: AS MVP Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 43
VX triangles their SFO redeye into FLL seasonally to JFK through late April. I think 5 days a week the redeye runs; 2 days it's RON in FLL.
DL has a lot more planes to play with down here and AS/VX combined doesn't come close. They have their own terminal with 9 gates so scheduling isn't a problem like AS who needs to get their plane back west asap. The DL FLL-SEA flight is seasonal and the 2nd AS flight was added shortly after DL announced it.
DL has a lot more planes to play with down here and AS/VX combined doesn't come close. They have their own terminal with 9 gates so scheduling isn't a problem like AS who needs to get their plane back west asap. The DL FLL-SEA flight is seasonal and the 2nd AS flight was added shortly after DL announced it.
Last edited by pdubak; Mar 27, 2017 at 4:21 pm
Mar 27, 2017, 5:50 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA1K
Posts: 4,044
I would be more impressed if they worked on building a club or figuring out where to partner at IAD. The Virgin and Alaska gates are near each other and other than enjoying a smash burger and a fro yo before the flight, there is pretty much nothing much happening and there are a ton of club options in the international terminal.
Since only AS lounge members can enter the guest lounges, there can't be that many people coming in daily- not like the overrun mess that is now the D lounge in Seattle.
Since only AS lounge members can enter the guest lounges, there can't be that many people coming in daily- not like the overrun mess that is now the D lounge in Seattle.
Mar 27, 2017, 7:47 pm
#28
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVP , Delta Gold Medallion, "Credit Card" status for various hotels
Posts: 672
i do agree with OP that the timing is better than either AS flight but I understand why that is the case.
Mar 28, 2017, 7:42 pm
#29
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VX doesn't fully utilize their DAL gates because it is unprofitable for them. WN lowers their fares to a point they cannot compete and has the local brand recognition. They only keep it a "focus city" so they can utilize their LGA/DCA slots. With AA having DFW down the road, I am not even sure AS will keep DAL as a focus city or keep its gates their. I could easily see UA/DL/B6 buying a gate at DAL.
The problem with AS building a focus city on the east coast is that they have no brand recognition. I helped a friend book a EWR-SEA, PDX-EWR itinerary for this summer and he had no idea AS existed (most also don't know about VX). This holds true for many people east of the Rockies. The best thing for AS to do would be to increase frequencies to east coast markets and then see where their brand sticks the best. SEA-NYC should go from 4x to 5x daily, SEA-MIA should get 2x daily, SEA-PHL should get a second flight, 2-3 Ohio cities should see flights, etc. And that is just from SEA... AS should really focus on improving their transcon/midcon frequencies and number of destinations before adding a focus city somewhere.
The problem with AS building a focus city on the east coast is that they have no brand recognition. I helped a friend book a EWR-SEA, PDX-EWR itinerary for this summer and he had no idea AS existed (most also don't know about VX). This holds true for many people east of the Rockies. The best thing for AS to do would be to increase frequencies to east coast markets and then see where their brand sticks the best. SEA-NYC should go from 4x to 5x daily, SEA-MIA should get 2x daily, SEA-PHL should get a second flight, 2-3 Ohio cities should see flights, etc. And that is just from SEA... AS should really focus on improving their transcon/midcon frequencies and number of destinations before adding a focus city somewhere.
Mar 28, 2017, 9:28 pm
#30
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Anchorage, AK
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Posts: 8,259
The best thing for AS to do would be to increase frequencies to east coast markets and then see where their brand sticks the best. SEA-NYC should go from 4x to 5x daily, SEA-MIA should get 2x daily, SEA-PHL should get a second flight, 2-3 Ohio cities should see flights, etc. And that is just from SEA... AS should really focus on improving their transcon/midcon frequencies and number of destinations before adding a focus city somewhere.