AF/KL accrual rate change
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
There is not much point in having six or seven "competitors" offer one-stop (e.g. connecting) service on a given city-pair if they all charge the same fare, fly the same aircraft type, leave and arrive at roughly the same time, offer the same weak level of amenities, and treat you with the same level of indifference.
They're not "competing" -- and they don't have to because they will all, in the end, push back full. They are dividing a captive market from a position of consolidated pricing power. Like utility companies.
#18
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,838
Not as a rule. They can be if you hit a mystic trifecta of travel date, destination, and advance-purchase period. I'm looking for fall tickets to the UK and the only business class offers under $3,000 are on Icelandair, whose Saga Class is not really business class at all -- most tariffs are $5k-$6k.
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
Always willing to fly from YVR, and in fact last fall I got a DL economy ticket YVR-SEA-LHR and return for $795 or so when the SEA-LHR roundtrip alone priced out at $1,300+. Similarly, BA PE this fall to LHR is about $600 cheaper ex-YVR than ex-SEA. We are suffering from hub-captive pricing a little in SEA right now.
#20
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AS mostly
Posts: 42
As behavior influencers for most people, FF programs are an ever-more-minor factor.
The whole point of these programs is to drive loyal buying behavior among the broad middle of frequent flyers. The lowest tier of customers will always go for cheap, and the highest tier will usually go for schedule / nonstops / convenience. The rest of us in the middle can be persuaded to buy loyally, pay more and / or accept suboptimal itineraries, in return for FF status and rewards.
The whole point of these programs is to drive loyal buying behavior among the broad middle of frequent flyers. The lowest tier of customers will always go for cheap, and the highest tier will usually go for schedule / nonstops / convenience. The rest of us in the middle can be persuaded to buy loyally, pay more and / or accept suboptimal itineraries, in return for FF status and rewards.
#21
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: YVR
Programs: AS MVP, Nexus
Posts: 155
Figures! I'm looking at both right now for my first flight from YVR-AMS, and was watching the fare class to ensure I earn AS miles. Guess it doesn't matter much anymore. Might as well book on Air Transat and save some $.
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: BOS/ORH
Programs: AS 75K
Posts: 18,323
#24
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: AS mostly
Posts: 42
IT issues are not the only problem. They could decide to allow tickets purchased before the earning changes to earn full value mileage when someone calls in and can prove the ticket purchase date. That would cost them some miles, but would solve the customer frustration issues. But they also choose not to do that either. I don't think it would cost very much to do that. My guess is that there aren't that many tickets out there that are impacted, and lots of folks are not going to notice the earnings difference. For those of us that do notice though, it would be a reasonable thing to do.
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
They could decide to allow tickets purchased before the earning changes to earn full value mileage when someone calls in and can prove the ticket purchase date. That would cost them some miles, but would solve the customer frustration issues. But they also choose not to do that
#26
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TUS, SEA, OTP, OMR
Posts: 868
These earnings reductions do change behavior. AA (and KL) got a lot more of my flying this year, to compensate for the DL changes.
On the other hand, after KL schwacked RO earnings last year, I've been flying Wizz Air. It's not worth paying $20-30 more to fly on RO, if I'm only going to earn 25% miles.
I suspect that we'll see reverses on some of these changes in the next few years (industry wide). The short term savings from these changes will eventually be overshadowed by changing customer behavior (that is, changes like this don't exist in a vacuum, in the long run).
The ideal options now for earning seem to be segments. AFAIK, nobody is offering fractional segments, so find a segment deal and eat your heart out.
On the other hand, after KL schwacked RO earnings last year, I've been flying Wizz Air. It's not worth paying $20-30 more to fly on RO, if I'm only going to earn 25% miles.
I suspect that we'll see reverses on some of these changes in the next few years (industry wide). The short term savings from these changes will eventually be overshadowed by changing customer behavior (that is, changes like this don't exist in a vacuum, in the long run).
The ideal options now for earning seem to be segments. AFAIK, nobody is offering fractional segments, so find a segment deal and eat your heart out.
#27
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVPG
Posts: 117
I suspect that we'll see reverses on some of these changes in the next few years (industry wide). The short term savings from these changes will eventually be overshadowed by changing customer behavior (that is, changes like this don't exist in a vacuum, in the long run).
Hopefully I'm proven wrong, but I don't see enough people changing their behavior to cause a switch back to the traditional system.
#28
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Upper Left Corner of the Map
Programs: AS MVPG & Board Room, Marriott Silver, Global Entry
Posts: 2,203
I can't blame AS for these changes, which are put into motion by their partner carriers. It does make reaching Gold a bit more challenging. I scored some big savings flying YVR-LHR-TXL this fall, and then the EQM dropped from 100% too 50% Still worth the extra slog to the north.
Yep, it does suck, but I think I'm more irritated at the prices out of SEA for European or Asian flights. If DL is successful in building SEA into an ATL or JFK style hub, it will only get worse.
Yep, it does suck, but I think I'm more irritated at the prices out of SEA for European or Asian flights. If DL is successful in building SEA into an ATL or JFK style hub, it will only get worse.