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I would imagine folks with more complex itins would be checking more stuff...

The DOT rule makes it more difficult for downstream carriers to figure out what the original allowance was This has nothing to do with the IATA risk of loss provisions. Worth remembering that the allowance from the first segment applies throughout the itinerary (round-trip). Carriers simply aren't willing to devote the resources which would be required to help a bag check clerk contractor at an outstation, figure out what the allowance had been for a pax whose inbound bag had originated on another PNR.

Worse, if they screw up, they face DOT penalties, so carriers do exactly what one could have predicted, they end the service.

Do you have a reference for this? I wasn't aware that this was now the practice.

In Title 14 CFR. Was effective January and enforced as of July. Applies to all itineraries either originating in or destined to the USA as well as all US air carriers.

Its not necessarily the allowance from the first segment, so much as the fees that are charged at the first segment apply through the whole round trip (provided that the itin was booked as a round trip).

The DOT rule states that your baggage fee must be consistent throughout the journey. So if you buy a DL ticket, your first segment may be on AS, but in 99% of the cases, DL will be considered the primary carrier, and DL baggage fees apply.

As much as some of you want to make this about a money grab... the DOT, in their attempt to create a consumer friendly policy, has actually created a rule that is very VERY complicated for everyone except those who buy their one ticket a year to go see grandma, and didn't understand that when you check in with Alaska you pay their baggage fee, and when you check in with Delta, you pay a different one. It's great for them... mind-numbingly painful for the rest of us. The airlines included.

I've only had to sit in on a fraction of the meetings involving the new ruling, and just those few have been migraine inducing.

Bottom line, why does the DOT have to get involved in the first place? If the airlines properly disclosed the baggage fees [including when booking a ticket on OAL, as in notifying the customer that you will be starting your trip on DL/AA and here is the link to the associated baggage fees (link sends customers to DL/AA baggage charge website) you will should expect to pay when checking in with DL/AA before the customer finalizes the purchase] then none of this mind-numbing nonsense would be necessary.

The blame is entirely on Airline Upper Level Management [all of them, not just AS] and the Beancounters who only understands maximizing profits not customer service for dragging everybody into this mud pit. It is no better than Hotels hiding resort fees until you see the hotel bill when checking out with $30-60 added to the bill per night. Ambiguity is a clever bait-and-switch strategy, particularly for those on non-refundable tickets, until the DOT, unnecessarily, had to get involved to force the airlines to be more transparent and put an end to this behavior.

Now, I am sure the DOT will have to go back to the drawing board and do some "damage control" to ensure the passengers are not getting screwed.

As always, this is by no means directed at you, but to airline management in general.

Well said. I was one of those that got screwed by this stupid rule. I'm usually aware of this stuff but was caught off guard and was told I had $300+ in baggage fees when I was expecting $40, with info backed up by the airline's websites. Wrote to all airlines involved and the DOT, but only got a response from DL, no response from Alaska. My one truly disappointing experience with AS and they didn't even respond...

Thanks for letting us know it's a pain for the airlines too missy. Makes me have a higher hope they will adjust it.

And that is exactly what I am seeking in the letter I wrote to my representative. Despite being a DOT retiree (worked 33 years for FAA), I do not feel one bit sorry for them. They made this mess, now they need to go back and clean it up.

And alphaeagle, I'd like to suggest that you copy and paste one of the letters that you wrote and send it to your congressional delegation. That's likely to have some tangible impact.

I still don't understand where you're getting the idea that somehow this has to do with maximizing profits or is the product of corporate bean counting.

What effect does the baggage ruling have on profits? ... other than the millions of dollars its costing the airlines to implement a policy that is no less confusing than the non-policy.

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I'd say its because all carriers gain an extra opportunity to collect baggage fees. They may not in the case of Club 49 or its an elite passenger, but for many pax they will have to pay a second fee to another carrier. This may not be malicious (as its following regulations) but I can see it increasing the fees collected by carriers.

Personally, I do not think this is a money grab. After looking at the added costs of more baggage handling (and potential loss of said bag), tying up an agent at the re-check-in counter, tying up TSA with another screening, the costs simply outweigh any advantage.

This is just another example of "Your Tax Dollars At Work" going wrong.....again.........

The new ruling CREATED that scenario ... it didn't solve it. golfingboy seems to be asserting that the DOT had to intervene due to beancounters wanting to maximize profit by hiding the baggage fees from the passenger. And I'm asking what profits?

The contract of carriage applies to your ticket. If you have a second ticket, its a different contract. The airlines were never under any obligation to provide interline service over multiple tickets, but they did ... and by doing so were actually not collecting the baggage fees contracted to in the second ticket - and making less money than they could have.


I'd also like to know what happened to alphaeagle, and try to determine if the new rule is going to solve whatever went wrong.

I am thinking the the whole "separate ticket" thing is key. If you go to each individual airline and buy different tickets from them then these rules apply but if you have multiple airlines listed on one AS itinerary but possibly different PNR's then you should be ok since AS is used as feeder flights into longer international flights. Anything else would be completely deceptive by stating the rules apply to "seperate tickets".

Completely agree

IIRC it was an itin that started with AS in ANC connecting to a DL flight. alphaeagle was anticipating paying AS' baggage fees as he was starting the journey with them, first two free and 3rd bag $20, and the agent insisted on charging DL's fees. This was sometime in Sept. Not sure if it was a DL or AS issued ticket.

This was directed at the behavior before the whole consumer protection regulations started popping up from LaHood's office.

Why were the luggage fees ambigious in the first place?
Why did the airlines not even bother giving us the total airfare in the very first screen, not at the end?
Why did the airlines force passengers to remain in their seat on the tarmac for 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 hours without even providing water or letting the passengers roam?
Why didn't the airlines proactively refund baggage fees if bags got lost?

Many other things I could list, bottom line one way or another it all has to do with cost, even though the right thing to do is pretty obvious. AS was probably one of the better airlines since employees were empowered to determine what is the appropriate course of action, but they are not innocent of some unnecessary customer un-friendly behavior.

Ever since de-regulation, things have really gotten out of control in the airline industry, more so since early 2000s. You can see that the passengers are in a highly unfavorable position by just reading the contract of carriages that keep getting longer with more exemptions/provisions that purposefully works against the customers [Rule 240 was the only saving grace, but it has been watered down so much that it does not really protect the customers much anymore].

Another deceptive practice that the DOT should crack down is when a paid F customer gets downgraded to Y, the refund should be the difference between the passenger's paid F fare and the CHEAPEST Y fare that was available when the F fare was purchased. This is just another example of an ongoing behavior by the airlines that is downright wrong.

Another one, if baggage is damaged we have to report it within 24 hours if we want the slightest chance of the airline reimbursing us. AS broke one of the foot of my bag, which is a pretty expensive durable and strong bag that requires someone to drop the bag from 5-6 feet to crack the foot in half. Surprisingly, the bag can stand just fine, thanks to the outside edge of the foot still being intact, so I did not notice it until 2-3 days later. Of course, according to the policy I was screwed.

Why can't we just trust the airlines to have our best interests in heart? Why do we have to worry about famarilizing ourselves with the CoC, why do we feel like working with the airlines is like working with a government agency [DMV for instance], why do we feel like we have to watch our backs to ensure we do not get screwed?

One time on DL, I volunteered on JFK-LAX, and when the agent was rebooking me, I picked the flight I wanted [since it was midnight and I wanted to get a full night's sleep]. The agent said she would not book me on that flight as I have to pick the flight that has my original booked fare class available, which left me with only two options the early morning flight or the last flight. I would have none of it and told her that this is an unacceptable way of handling volunteers. Finally another agent called me over and took care of me.

On UA, our EWR-IAD flight was delayed almost five hours due to mechanical issues [we came from IST], and we already missed our bus ride back to PIT. The EWR-PIT flight was wide open the following morning, so I asked the agent to please rebook us to PIT instead since it is their fault for causing the delay [I wouldn't expect this in a weather situation], which IMO is an abnormal request, but not unreasonable. It took a while for the GA to finally agree to rebook us to PIT, so we don't get stranded in DC at 1am with no transportation options.

Why can't the airlines be more flexible, understanding, and accommodating?

A year ago, when we moved from CA to MD, we hired a professional tile floor cleaner company to clean the grouts and the tile in the great room, kitchen, hallway, etc. We had a rug in the great room, and they assured us we can leave the rug since they can work around it. Turns out they poured so much liquid on the floor that a lot of it seeped under the rug and when they were gone the rug was damaged. We called the company, and they sent people to try to fix the rug. They had no luck, so we called back, the company wrote us a check for a new rug [the rug was over $2K] and waived all charges for their service. Why can't we expect the same from the airlines? Why can't the airlines proactively process hotel/meal vouchers if we are stuck overnight after a mechanical cancellation without me having to ask for them along with a proper partial refund for failure to bring us to our destination within the same day and screwing up our plans?

AS truly went out of the way to help me get out of the snowstorm in DC a few years back, which meant rebooking me in F [which the first agent refused to do] since that was the only seat available and I was on a coach ticket. The first agent preached the rules and told me to cough up $$$ if I want to get out of DC, thankfully, another agent went out of his way to help me and that meant a lot. I would have been stuck for another two days if I wasn't rebooked in F.

There are some glimmers left in this service oriented industry, but the remaining glimmers are slowly dissipating as certain policy makers continue to tighten up policies and in some extreme cases threaten to fire the employee for not adhering to policy. The customers have their backs against the wall in this industry and the only way to restore some "fairness" we have to rely on the DOT since the managers and beancounters have proven over the years since deregulation that they value every cent more than their customers.

This is the sad state this industry, along with many other industries particularly the finance industry [I work for one], has turned into and the only group of people with the ability to protect the consumers are the regulators. Even though, I do not even want them to get involved, but it is necessary.

I am disappointed at the DOT for this foul up, but I am not upset at them since they have implemented many positive regulations, so they deserve some credit. I am more upset with airline managers and decision makers. Look at how some airlines treat their employees, especially the regionals. Just downright disgusting and sad. It is pretty bad in my industry with below street level pay and the continuous erosion of our benefits [in 2014, the only health insurance option will be two PPO plans, after they took away profit sharing in 2010, the pension, etc], but certain groups within the airline industry have it worst than us. So, I do applaud AS for taking care of their employees and I hope they continue to refrain from taking away any benefits from their employees, after all, employees are the company's most valuable asset.

Thank you for letting me vent.

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Back to the baggage issue, why don't the airlines be proactive and come up with some kind of solution to this issue rather than waiting for the DOT to interfere? Remember, this will impact 20% of your customers, which IMO does warrant proactively establishing an ad-hoc team to come up with strategies or ideas on how one can work out an agreement with all airlines through IATA to establish some kind of consistency when it comes to luggage fees on itineraries that involves multiple carriers?

I honestly believe none of this would happen if the customers were properly informed of what the fees will be and and the airlines were more transparent with the exact amount they should expect to pay including if it is on codeshare tickets (I.e. your return flight is on Delta, so expect to pay $25 for first bag, etc)