Airberlin Downgraded from Business to Economy
Jan 29, 2016, 9:23 pm
#31
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2
If you got it from AB US website, in USD, on an itinerary that starts, stops, or ends in US, then it is definitely within DOT jurisdiction as it was "marketed towards US consumers." 14 USC § 399.88 definitely applies in regards that if you made any non-refundable reservations (eg hotel) for this trip, AB should reimburse you for those cancellation costs in the event you decide to cancel the trip with AB.
Maybe you should ask AB for the contact information of their legal department as well.
Maybe you should ask AB for the contact information of their legal department as well.
So one of my friends bought the tickets through Expedia an experiencing the same thing. She pushed Expedia to do mediation with the Air Berlin. Expedia also think that AB have no right to do this. Short story, the promotion WAS exist but they lost control of the quota. Which this is their fault and shouldnt be borne to the customer.
Jan 30, 2016, 7:54 am
#32
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,638
Yes i bought it in USD/ US website.
So one of my friends bought the tickets through Expedia an experiencing the same thing. She pushed Expedia to do mediation with the Air Berlin. Expedia also think that AB have no right to do this. Short story, the promotion WAS exist but they lost control of the quota. Which this is their fault and shouldnt be borne to the customer.
So one of my friends bought the tickets through Expedia an experiencing the same thing. She pushed Expedia to do mediation with the Air Berlin. Expedia also think that AB have no right to do this. Short story, the promotion WAS exist but they lost control of the quota. Which this is their fault and shouldnt be borne to the customer.
Jan 30, 2016, 6:54 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
Yes i bought it in USD/ US website.
So one of my friends bought the tickets through Expedia an experiencing the same thing. She pushed Expedia to do mediation with the Air Berlin. Expedia also think that AB have no right to do this. Short story, the promotion WAS exist but they lost control of the quota. Which this is their fault and shouldnt be borne to the customer.
So one of my friends bought the tickets through Expedia an experiencing the same thing. She pushed Expedia to do mediation with the Air Berlin. Expedia also think that AB have no right to do this. Short story, the promotion WAS exist but they lost control of the quota. Which this is their fault and shouldnt be borne to the customer.
Did they agree to help, or they just expressed their sympathy and suggested her to deal with AB directly?
Feb 1, 2016, 8:40 am
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 16
Did anyone actually say "promotion" and "quota" explicitly? Expedia US said that? Or just an opinion? If Expedia has any information about promotion, that can be useful.
Did they agree to help, or they just expressed their sympathy and suggested her to deal with AB directly?
Did they agree to help, or they just expressed their sympathy and suggested her to deal with AB directly?
Feb 1, 2016, 9:06 am
#35
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,638
A chargeback would result in AB cancelling the reservation. Did AB not offer you the option of cancel for full refund?
Feb 1, 2016, 9:21 am
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 16
I just spoke with multiple reps at US # 18662665588. Apparently, this number is reserved for service agents or booking flights with AB. I spoke with a couple of Germans and they seemed to not be able to give any other compensation other than what is mandated by the CEO of AirBerlin.
They also offered to take cancellation up to your flight date for a full refund or take the Economy class (1 luggage only-23kg). This is very ...... response from the management, I believe.
If we get all people on this forum together, perhaps we can consult to the lawyer familiar with this type of situation. Perhaps, mass class action lawsuit against AB.
I mean this is legitimately in clear violation of the federal and international law as stated earlier. They will not acknowledge up to this mistake in public of course! If this ever gets public, then they'll take massive action to compensate their passengers.
Talking about lawsuits, does anyone here have any recommendation for a legal team specialized in flights cancellation/compensation?
Feb 1, 2016, 10:49 am
#37
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
I was thinking of CB after taking the flight in the summer, but that would be 4 months away.
I just spoke with multiple reps at US # 18662665588. Apparently, this number is reserved for service agents or booking flights with AB. I spoke with a couple of Germans and they seemed to not be able to give any other compensation other than what is mandated by the CEO of AirBerlin.
They also offered to take cancellation up to your flight date for a full refund or take the Economy class (1 luggage only-23kg). This is very ...... response from the management, I believe.
If we get all people on this forum together, perhaps we can consult to the lawyer familiar with this type of situation. Perhaps, mass class action lawsuit against AB.
I mean this is legitimately in clear violation of the federal and international law as stated earlier. They will not acknowledge up to this mistake in public of course! If this ever gets public, then they'll take massive action to compensate their passengers.
Talking about lawsuits, does anyone here have any recommendation for a legal team specialized in flights cancellation/compensation?
I just spoke with multiple reps at US # 18662665588. Apparently, this number is reserved for service agents or booking flights with AB. I spoke with a couple of Germans and they seemed to not be able to give any other compensation other than what is mandated by the CEO of AirBerlin.
They also offered to take cancellation up to your flight date for a full refund or take the Economy class (1 luggage only-23kg). This is very ...... response from the management, I believe.
If we get all people on this forum together, perhaps we can consult to the lawyer familiar with this type of situation. Perhaps, mass class action lawsuit against AB.
I mean this is legitimately in clear violation of the federal and international law as stated earlier. They will not acknowledge up to this mistake in public of course! If this ever gets public, then they'll take massive action to compensate their passengers.
Talking about lawsuits, does anyone here have any recommendation for a legal team specialized in flights cancellation/compensation?
Charge back after the flight won't fly, I'm afraid. You might get it initially, but be prepared to face harassment from collection agency and you may end up having to settle in small claims court eventually.
If you want to dispute it, best would be before the flight. Charge back won't be a wise option.
Feb 1, 2016, 11:08 am
#38
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,638
I was thinking of CB after taking the flight in the summer, but that would be 4 months away.
I just spoke with multiple reps at US # 18662665588. Apparently, this number is reserved for service agents or booking flights with AB. I spoke with a couple of Germans and they seemed to not be able to give any other compensation other than what is mandated by the CEO of AirBerlin.
They also offered to take cancellation up to your flight date for a full refund or take the Economy class (1 luggage only-23kg). This is very ...... response from the management, I believe.
If we get all people on this forum together, perhaps we can consult to the lawyer familiar with this type of situation. Perhaps, mass class action lawsuit against AB.
I mean this is legitimately in clear violation of the federal and international law as stated earlier. They will not acknowledge up to this mistake in public of course! If this ever gets public, then they'll take massive action to compensate their passengers.
Talking about lawsuits, does anyone here have any recommendation for a legal team specialized in flights cancellation/compensation?
I just spoke with multiple reps at US # 18662665588. Apparently, this number is reserved for service agents or booking flights with AB. I spoke with a couple of Germans and they seemed to not be able to give any other compensation other than what is mandated by the CEO of AirBerlin.
They also offered to take cancellation up to your flight date for a full refund or take the Economy class (1 luggage only-23kg). This is very ...... response from the management, I believe.
If we get all people on this forum together, perhaps we can consult to the lawyer familiar with this type of situation. Perhaps, mass class action lawsuit against AB.
I mean this is legitimately in clear violation of the federal and international law as stated earlier. They will not acknowledge up to this mistake in public of course! If this ever gets public, then they'll take massive action to compensate their passengers.
Talking about lawsuits, does anyone here have any recommendation for a legal team specialized in flights cancellation/compensation?
First thing credit card company will ask is if they transported you. The credit card issuer is not in the business of of providing a fair valuation between economy and business.
If AB respond and reply to credit card that they transported you, I think the credit card will closed the chargeback.
I'm not a lawyer but I think your options are
- Take economy
- Cancel and full refund and if any non-refundable travel-related charges, pursue AB under 14 USC § 399.88.
- Take economy and pursue EC261/2004 Article 10. Be sure you have all your documents showing confirmed ticket in business and when you confirm with AB you will take economy you should document by taking economy, you are in no way giving up your rights under EC261/2004. You may end up having to take this in European judicial system if AB plays hardball.
- Sue them in US small claims for the difference between what you can buy today in business class and the fare you paid so far?
Feb 2, 2016, 6:20 am
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 16
Just got an update from DOT and stated that AB in clear violation of the law and they're now seeking response from Air Berlin!
I don't think you can't charge back after making the trip. If anything it will only weaken your position.
First thing credit card company will ask is if they transported you. The credit card issuer is not in the business of of providing a fair valuation between economy and business.
If AB respond and reply to credit card that they transported you, I think the credit card will closed the chargeback.
I'm not a lawyer but I think your options are
First thing credit card company will ask is if they transported you. The credit card issuer is not in the business of of providing a fair valuation between economy and business.
If AB respond and reply to credit card that they transported you, I think the credit card will closed the chargeback.
I'm not a lawyer but I think your options are
- Take economy
- Cancel and full refund and if any non-refundable travel-related charges, pursue AB under 14 USC § 399.88.
- Take economy and pursue EC261/2004 Article 10. Be sure you have all your documents showing confirmed ticket in business and when you confirm with AB you will take economy you should document by taking economy, you are in no way giving up your rights under EC261/2004. You may end up having to take this in European judicial system if AB plays hardball.
- Sue them in US small claims for the difference between what you can buy today in business class and the fare you paid so far?
Feb 2, 2016, 7:40 am
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 16
Seawolf, thanks for your feedback.
I have stressed out to the manager of call center at AB with the option #3 "Take economy and pursue EC261/2004 Article 10. Be sure you have all your documents showing confirmed ticket in business and when you confirm with AB you will take economy you should document by taking economy, you are in no way giving up your rights under EC261/2004. You may end up having to take this in European judicial system if AB plays hardball."
I think at this point, I will wait until I hear the final decision from DOT. If anyone else is also interested, please submit your claim to the DOT as well! This will strengthen all of our cases!!
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/ConsumerForm.cfm
Please submit asap!!
I have stressed out to the manager of call center at AB with the option #3 "Take economy and pursue EC261/2004 Article 10. Be sure you have all your documents showing confirmed ticket in business and when you confirm with AB you will take economy you should document by taking economy, you are in no way giving up your rights under EC261/2004. You may end up having to take this in European judicial system if AB plays hardball."
I think at this point, I will wait until I hear the final decision from DOT. If anyone else is also interested, please submit your claim to the DOT as well! This will strengthen all of our cases!!
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/ConsumerForm.cfm
Please submit asap!!
Feb 2, 2016, 7:41 am
#41
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 16
Also, I bought tickets for my old parents, hence I needed the business class. I purchased the tickets from Cathay and had to cancel due to the attrative AB price! I am also US based, for those who are following this forum. I am not sure if you're outside of US would be eligible to claim DOT, though. Anyways, please stay tuned. This gets interesting.
Feb 2, 2016, 8:29 am
#42
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,638
Feb 2, 2016, 8:35 am
#43
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2
I have the same exact problem. I tried to call them several times and their responses are the same, either take the downgrade or get the refund. I sent several e-mails and also received the same responses. I will submit a claim to DOT. Hopefully it will strengthen our cases.
Feb 2, 2016, 8:36 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2
Seawolf, thanks for your feedback.
I have stressed out to the manager of call center at AB with the option #3 "Take economy and pursue EC261/2004 Article 10. Be sure you have all your documents showing confirmed ticket in business and when you confirm with AB you will take economy you should document by taking economy, you are in no way giving up your rights under EC261/2004. You may end up having to take this in European judicial system if AB plays hardball."
I think at this point, I will wait until I hear the final decision from DOT. If anyone else is also interested, please submit your claim to the DOT as well! This will strengthen all of our cases!!
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/ConsumerForm.cfm
Please submit asap!!
I have stressed out to the manager of call center at AB with the option #3 "Take economy and pursue EC261/2004 Article 10. Be sure you have all your documents showing confirmed ticket in business and when you confirm with AB you will take economy you should document by taking economy, you are in no way giving up your rights under EC261/2004. You may end up having to take this in European judicial system if AB plays hardball."
I think at this point, I will wait until I hear the final decision from DOT. If anyone else is also interested, please submit your claim to the DOT as well! This will strengthen all of our cases!!
http://airconsumer.dot.gov/escomplaint/ConsumerForm.cfm
Please submit asap!!
Feb 2, 2016, 9:43 am
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
The problem on the DOT side is that theirs is the stock response to all complaints. They will require the carrier to respond. AB has lawyers who have presumably advised the carrier of the EC 261/2004 and DOT potential consequences and have responses prepared or in process.
The response here will be that this was an "error fare" and that DOT should, pursuant to its published policy, take no action. Then, as AB has offered transport in Y as an alternative to a full refund, there are no consequential damages for non-refundable rooms/tours and the like.
At least AB has extended the decision point. I will be surprised if AB does much here without a court order, not because it cares much about any one passenger, but because the sheer numbers likely add up to a lot of money which its financials suggest that it doesn't have.
The response here will be that this was an "error fare" and that DOT should, pursuant to its published policy, take no action. Then, as AB has offered transport in Y as an alternative to a full refund, there are no consequential damages for non-refundable rooms/tours and the like.
At least AB has extended the decision point. I will be surprised if AB does much here without a court order, not because it cares much about any one passenger, but because the sheer numbers likely add up to a lot of money which its financials suggest that it doesn't have.