Airberlin Downgraded from Business to Economy
Jan 26, 2016, 6:52 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 16
Airberlin Downgraded from Business to Economy
I booked a flight from Jakarta to New York on a business class with AirBerlin. I have made several adjustments to my previous itinerary and I recently received an email stating:
Due to a technical error, the price you paid for your journey was displayed incorrectly in our systems and is not a valid price for this itinerary in the Business Class compartment. We hereby rescind the invalid fare; in the alternative, we cancel your recent booking.
We apologise for the inconvenience and in order to honour your travel request, we offer you either
(i) to fly Economy Class at the same fare; or
(ii) to refund your ticket.
We have already rebooked your itinerary to Economy Class and attach your revised booking.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Does Article 10 EU 261/2004 applies on this downgrade?
Article 10
Upgrading and downgrading
1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not request any supplementary payment.
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less, or
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, except flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments.
Due to a technical error, the price you paid for your journey was displayed incorrectly in our systems and is not a valid price for this itinerary in the Business Class compartment. We hereby rescind the invalid fare; in the alternative, we cancel your recent booking.
We apologise for the inconvenience and in order to honour your travel request, we offer you either
(i) to fly Economy Class at the same fare; or
(ii) to refund your ticket.
We have already rebooked your itinerary to Economy Class and attach your revised booking.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Does Article 10 EU 261/2004 applies on this downgrade?
Article 10
Upgrading and downgrading
1. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class higher than that for which the ticket was purchased, it may not request any supplementary payment.
2. If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse
(a) 30 % of the price of the ticket for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less, or
(b) 50 % of the price of the ticket for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, except flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres, or
(c) 75 % of the price of the ticket for all flights not falling under (a) or (b), including flights between the European territory of the Member States and the French overseas departments.
Jan 26, 2016, 10:36 am
#3
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
ortho88,
What was the price paid for the flight? Was it CGK to JFK via TXL? There is no direct flight from Jakarta with Air Berlin, so I guess it's a codeshare with EY?
If you do connect at TXL, I guess you are indeed entitled to the EC261, though I'm not exactly sure about:
- only TXL legs are affected, but do they need to compensate for the whole ticket or only for the affected portions
- if they should compensate based on ticketed price or the "valid" price
As you mentioned New York (US bound), you might be able to pursue also DOT 399.88
Good luck and keep us updated!
What was the price paid for the flight? Was it CGK to JFK via TXL? There is no direct flight from Jakarta with Air Berlin, so I guess it's a codeshare with EY?
If you do connect at TXL, I guess you are indeed entitled to the EC261, though I'm not exactly sure about:
- only TXL legs are affected, but do they need to compensate for the whole ticket or only for the affected portions
- if they should compensate based on ticketed price or the "valid" price
As you mentioned New York (US bound), you might be able to pursue also DOT 399.88
Good luck and keep us updated!
Last edited by TheFlyingDutch; Jan 27, 2016 at 4:12 am
Jan 26, 2016, 9:15 pm
#4
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,639
Airberlin Downgraded from Business to Economy
Has this been ticketed and what are the flight numbers?
You should have a case under both EC261/2004 and 14 USC 399.88.
You should have a case under both EC261/2004 and 14 USC 399.88.
Jan 27, 2016, 12:04 am
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Capetown
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Plat, IHG and Hilton Diamond, LH SEN, BA Gold
Posts: 10,170
To me it reads as if they understand the fare paid as an error fare. However without any further information on the booking, the fare, the circumstances we are certainly not in the position to offer any help.
Jan 27, 2016, 6:44 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1
Re: same boat
I've also received this email notification of downgrade or refund. Here are the details of my existing booking, which payment has already been debited on my cc:
Jakarta - Abu Dhabi FLT:AB 4017
Operated by Etihad Airways
Abu Dhabi - Dusseldorf FLT:AB 4009
Operated by Etihad Airways
Dusseldorf - New York - JFK FLT:AB 7450
Operated by Air Berlin
and reverse for legs back, following FLT:
AB 7481,AB 4008,AB 4016
Jakarta - Abu Dhabi FLT:AB 4017
Operated by Etihad Airways
Abu Dhabi - Dusseldorf FLT:AB 4009
Operated by Etihad Airways
Dusseldorf - New York - JFK FLT:AB 7450
Operated by Air Berlin
and reverse for legs back, following FLT:
AB 7481,AB 4008,AB 4016
Jan 27, 2016, 6:51 am
#7
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
I've also received this email notification of downgrade or refund. Here are the details of my existing booking, which payment has already been debited on my cc:
Jakarta - Abu Dhabi FLT:AB 4017
Operated by Etihad Airways
Abu Dhabi - Dusseldorf FLT:AB 4009
Operated by Etihad Airways
Dusseldorf - New York - JFK FLT:AB 7450
Operated by Air Berlin
and reverse for legs back, following FLT:
AB 7481,AB 4008,AB 4016
Jakarta - Abu Dhabi FLT:AB 4017
Operated by Etihad Airways
Abu Dhabi - Dusseldorf FLT:AB 4009
Operated by Etihad Airways
Dusseldorf - New York - JFK FLT:AB 7450
Operated by Air Berlin
and reverse for legs back, following FLT:
AB 7481,AB 4008,AB 4016
Same question as above, at what price and at what fare class?
Did you buy from AB directly or from OTA (which)?
Have you responded to the email?
Jan 27, 2016, 7:10 am
#8
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,639
Jan 27, 2016, 7:33 am
#9
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 178
I posted this on mobile app yesterday. Now that I'm back at my desk, 14 USC 399.88 may not be applicable as it appears DOT has suspended enforcement of 399.88 until pending review of this rule.
I have not received any email yet but it would appear that I too have been downgraded on the AB site.
Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 am
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Going to need a lot more information and there are not going to be any absolutes.
First, EC 261/2004 only applies to the operating carrier, not the marketing/ticketing carrier. It applies to community (EU) carriers and to flights departing the EU. For the inbound that will be the TXL-JFK segment (AB-operated and xEU). On the return, it will apply to JFK-TXL (AB-operated), and xTXL (xEU).
Second, it is unclear as to whether 75% applies to the cost of the entire ticket or the ticket for the downgraded segments. Let's leave that as an open question for the moment. It will be a significant chunk of the ticket price.
Third, as to the DOT rule, OP would only be entitled to a refund of the fare difference between J and Y. If he were being denied travel, it is true that DOT has suspended enforcement of its post-purchase rule in mistake fare situations while it considers amending the rule. The rule was intended to capture things such as fuel surcharge increases, not mistakes and we can anticipate a new rule soon enough.
Fourth, this issue will then come down to how AB in the first instance and then OP's chosen court chooses to deal with the mistake fare issue. This is not the ordinary situation where the J cabin is overbooked so far as we know. Rather, it represents an affirmative decision by AB to dishonor a mistake knowing that it may face greater claims under EC 261/2004.
I haven't done the math here and perhaps someone else will. But, what would EC 261/2004 get you and an UG then cost you? Alternatively, is it cleaner to take the cancellation for a refund, EC 261/2004 and then purchase J? Lastly, would one negotiate for a clean J ticket and forgo EC 261/2004?
Bear in mind that there will be 1,000 certain opinions on FT. But there's no great precedent about mistake issues because it wasn't until relatively recently that mistake fares became so public. I have to believe that a few people got them, the carriers honored those few and they went away.
First, EC 261/2004 only applies to the operating carrier, not the marketing/ticketing carrier. It applies to community (EU) carriers and to flights departing the EU. For the inbound that will be the TXL-JFK segment (AB-operated and xEU). On the return, it will apply to JFK-TXL (AB-operated), and xTXL (xEU).
Second, it is unclear as to whether 75% applies to the cost of the entire ticket or the ticket for the downgraded segments. Let's leave that as an open question for the moment. It will be a significant chunk of the ticket price.
Third, as to the DOT rule, OP would only be entitled to a refund of the fare difference between J and Y. If he were being denied travel, it is true that DOT has suspended enforcement of its post-purchase rule in mistake fare situations while it considers amending the rule. The rule was intended to capture things such as fuel surcharge increases, not mistakes and we can anticipate a new rule soon enough.
Fourth, this issue will then come down to how AB in the first instance and then OP's chosen court chooses to deal with the mistake fare issue. This is not the ordinary situation where the J cabin is overbooked so far as we know. Rather, it represents an affirmative decision by AB to dishonor a mistake knowing that it may face greater claims under EC 261/2004.
I haven't done the math here and perhaps someone else will. But, what would EC 261/2004 get you and an UG then cost you? Alternatively, is it cleaner to take the cancellation for a refund, EC 261/2004 and then purchase J? Lastly, would one negotiate for a clean J ticket and forgo EC 261/2004?
Bear in mind that there will be 1,000 certain opinions on FT. But there's no great precedent about mistake issues because it wasn't until relatively recently that mistake fares became so public. I have to believe that a few people got them, the carriers honored those few and they went away.
Jan 27, 2016, 8:44 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
Going to need a lot more information and there are not going to be any absolutes.
First, EC 261/2004 only applies to the operating carrier, not the marketing/ticketing carrier. It applies to community (EU) carriers and to flights departing the EU. For the inbound that will be the TXL-JFK segment (AB-operated and xEU). On the return, it will apply to JFK-TXL (AB-operated), and xTXL (xEU).
Second, it is unclear as to whether 75% applies to the cost of the entire ticket or the ticket for the downgraded segments. Let's leave that as an open question for the moment. It will be a significant chunk of the ticket price.
Third, as to the DOT rule, OP would only be entitled to a refund of the fare difference between J and Y. If he were being denied travel, it is true that DOT has suspended enforcement of its post-purchase rule in mistake fare situations while it considers amending the rule. The rule was intended to capture things such as fuel surcharge increases, not mistakes and we can anticipate a new rule soon enough.
Fourth, this issue will then come down to how AB in the first instance and then OP's chosen court chooses to deal with the mistake fare issue. This is not the ordinary situation where the J cabin is overbooked so far as we know. Rather, it represents an affirmative decision by AB to dishonor a mistake knowing that it may face greater claims under EC 261/2004.
I haven't done the math here and perhaps someone else will. But, what would EC 261/2004 get you and an UG then cost you? Alternatively, is it cleaner to take the cancellation for a refund, EC 261/2004 and then purchase J? Lastly, would one negotiate for a clean J ticket and forgo EC 261/2004?
Bear in mind that there will be 1,000 certain opinions on FT. But there's no great precedent about mistake issues because it wasn't until relatively recently that mistake fares became so public. I have to believe that a few people got them, the carriers honored those few and they went away.
First, EC 261/2004 only applies to the operating carrier, not the marketing/ticketing carrier. It applies to community (EU) carriers and to flights departing the EU. For the inbound that will be the TXL-JFK segment (AB-operated and xEU). On the return, it will apply to JFK-TXL (AB-operated), and xTXL (xEU).
Second, it is unclear as to whether 75% applies to the cost of the entire ticket or the ticket for the downgraded segments. Let's leave that as an open question for the moment. It will be a significant chunk of the ticket price.
Third, as to the DOT rule, OP would only be entitled to a refund of the fare difference between J and Y. If he were being denied travel, it is true that DOT has suspended enforcement of its post-purchase rule in mistake fare situations while it considers amending the rule. The rule was intended to capture things such as fuel surcharge increases, not mistakes and we can anticipate a new rule soon enough.
Fourth, this issue will then come down to how AB in the first instance and then OP's chosen court chooses to deal with the mistake fare issue. This is not the ordinary situation where the J cabin is overbooked so far as we know. Rather, it represents an affirmative decision by AB to dishonor a mistake knowing that it may face greater claims under EC 261/2004.
I haven't done the math here and perhaps someone else will. But, what would EC 261/2004 get you and an UG then cost you? Alternatively, is it cleaner to take the cancellation for a refund, EC 261/2004 and then purchase J? Lastly, would one negotiate for a clean J ticket and forgo EC 261/2004?
Bear in mind that there will be 1,000 certain opinions on FT. But there's no great precedent about mistake issues because it wasn't until relatively recently that mistake fares became so public. I have to believe that a few people got them, the carriers honored those few and they went away.
Also, they didn't completely stop enforcing it. The airlines will have to prove that the advertised fare was a mistake, and even with that, they are still liable to compensate for non cancellable bookings (with valid proof).
In this case, OP still haven't told us how much he/she paid for his/her ticket, so it not easy to "guess" if the price was a "good deal" or a "mistake" and give our opinions.
Another point on EC261/2004. If OP choose to cancel, then he/she will get a full refund, nothing else. If OP choose to accept the involuntary downgrade, then he/she might be entitled to claim the 75% refund of the paid ticket (or a portion of it).
Not too many options, in my opinion:
- cancel and get the money back and move on
- accept the downgrade but insist on the 75% refund
- hold your ground for business and try to convince the airline, or
- file a complaint to DOT and see what happens
Jan 27, 2016, 10:00 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 16
Jan 27, 2016, 10:22 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 16
Jan 27, 2016, 10:58 am
#15
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
Go to checkmytrip.com and enter your locator. Very likely you will see both old e-ticket number and new one.
Have you decided on what to ask them for?