Nov 2, 2023, 11:36 am
Last edit by: canadavid
Yes it will!
To the best of our understanding, this is the current situation:
For your next renewal, between Nov 2023, and Oct 2024:
Nothing will change, you will renew as you always have
For your renewal occurring in the period from Nov 2024 to Oct 2025 (Transition year):
(And as clarified by Ben Lipsey in Post 208 of this very thread)
Step 1: A first "block" of 300XP is deducted from your balance to renew Platinum for the new year that is just starting
Step 2: The next "block" of 300XP - or whatever amount less than 300XP is left after step 1 - becomes your rollover for this new year. 300XP is the maximum rollover possible under any circumstance.
Step 3: If you have any left-over balance after Steps 1 and 2, each subsequent "block" of 300XP will go to reducing the timer for PfL by a single year. Step 3 is repeated iteratively until you have a remaining balance falling within the range 0XP-299XP inclusive. Once this stage is reached - which could happen without actually having reduced your wait time from the standard 10 consecutive years - these XPs are discarded - because you are already carrying your maximum allowed rollover amount (300XP) and you don't have another "block" of 300XP that can reduce your PfL wait time - and the procedure ends
Example 1
If you finish this year with 410XP:
Step 1: (410-300 = 110XP) : 300XP deducted to give you a new year of Platinum
Step 2: (110 -110 = 0XP): 110XP deducted and passed on to next year as your rollover amount for next year
No more XPs left to deal with, so the procedure ends. There is no scope to reduce your wait time for PfL.
You start your new year as Platinum with a starting balance of 110XP and you retain the standard wait time to get to PfL of 10 consecutive years
Example 2
If you finish this year with 950XP:
Step 1: (950-300 = 650XP) : 300XP deducted to give you a new year of Platinum
Step 2: (650 -300 = 350XP): 300XP deducted and passed on to next year as your maximum rollover amount (already guaranteeing that you will make Platinum again in 1 year's time)
Step 3: (350-300 = 50XP): 300XP deducted to reduce your PfL timer from 10 consecutive years to 9 consecutive years
Remainder = 50XP: - no more blocks of 300XP left. This 50XP is discarded
You start your new year as Platinum with a starting balance of 300XP and a reduced wait time of 9 consecutive years to get to PfL.
Example 3
If you finish this year with 1790XP:
Step 1: (1790-300 = 1490XP) : 300XP deducted to give you a new year of Platinum
Step 2: (1490 -300 = 1190XP): 300XP deducted and passed on to next year as your maximum rollover amount (already guaranteeing that you will make Platinum again in 1 year's time)
Step 3a: (1190-300 = 890XP): 300XP deducted to reduce your PfL timer from 10 consecutive years to 9 consecutive years
Step 3b: (890-300 = 590XP): 300XP deducted to reduce your PfL timer from 9 consecutive years to 8 consecutive years
Step 3c: (590-300 = 290XP): 300XP deducted to reduce your PfL timer from 8 consecutive years to 7 consecutive years
Remainder = 290XP: - no more blocks of 300XP left. This 290XP is discarded
You start your new year as Platinum with a starting balance of 300XP and a reduced wait time of 7 consecutive years to get to PfL
Balances required at the time of your transition to shorten your wait time for PfL
On the date of your transition from the old to the new scheme, the following balances will have the indicated effect on your wait time for PfL:
0-899XP: No effect; 10 consecutive years required to get to PfL
900-1199XP: PfL after 9 consecutive years
1200-1499XP: PfL after 8 consecutive years
1500-1799XP: PfL after 7 consecutive years
1800-2099XP: PfL after 6 consecutive years
2100-2399XP: PfL after 5 consecutive years
etc etc etc....
For renewals, after Nov 2025 (New system):
300-600XP You will burn 300XP for renewal and roll over what's left
601+ You will renew plat and retain a flat 300XP
To help you calculate your own situation, you can use the calculator shared by @sehgalanuj on post #239 : https://sehgalanuj.github.io/xpcalc/
Full explanation with examples (recommended read): An important update regarding XP - What's new | Flying Blue
Our programme is evolving, and soon there will be a change to how surplus XP rolls over to future qualification periods.
As of 1 November 2024, as a Flying Blue Platinum member you will be able to carry over a maximum of 300 XP to your next qualification period, on top of what is ordinarily required to qualify for or maintain your Platinum status.
If you currently have more than 300 XP in your counter don't worry: during the one-year transition phase, for every 300 XP in your counter in excess of the 300 XP cap, you will receive one year towards your Platinum for Life counter, helping you earn lifetime status even sooner.
Please note that as of 1 November 2024 you must earn 300 XP each subsequent qualification period to qualify for Flying Blue Platinum.
To the best of our understanding, this is the current situation:
For your next renewal, between Nov 2023, and Oct 2024:
Nothing will change, you will renew as you always have
For your renewal occurring in the period from Nov 2024 to Oct 2025 (Transition year):
(And as clarified by Ben Lipsey in Post 208 of this very thread)
Step 1: A first "block" of 300XP is deducted from your balance to renew Platinum for the new year that is just starting
Step 2: The next "block" of 300XP - or whatever amount less than 300XP is left after step 1 - becomes your rollover for this new year. 300XP is the maximum rollover possible under any circumstance.
Step 3: If you have any left-over balance after Steps 1 and 2, each subsequent "block" of 300XP will go to reducing the timer for PfL by a single year. Step 3 is repeated iteratively until you have a remaining balance falling within the range 0XP-299XP inclusive. Once this stage is reached - which could happen without actually having reduced your wait time from the standard 10 consecutive years - these XPs are discarded - because you are already carrying your maximum allowed rollover amount (300XP) and you don't have another "block" of 300XP that can reduce your PfL wait time - and the procedure ends
Example 1
If you finish this year with 410XP:
Step 1: (410-300 = 110XP) : 300XP deducted to give you a new year of Platinum
Step 2: (110 -110 = 0XP): 110XP deducted and passed on to next year as your rollover amount for next year
No more XPs left to deal with, so the procedure ends. There is no scope to reduce your wait time for PfL.
You start your new year as Platinum with a starting balance of 110XP and you retain the standard wait time to get to PfL of 10 consecutive years
Example 2
If you finish this year with 950XP:
Step 1: (950-300 = 650XP) : 300XP deducted to give you a new year of Platinum
Step 2: (650 -300 = 350XP): 300XP deducted and passed on to next year as your maximum rollover amount (already guaranteeing that you will make Platinum again in 1 year's time)
Step 3: (350-300 = 50XP): 300XP deducted to reduce your PfL timer from 10 consecutive years to 9 consecutive years
Remainder = 50XP: - no more blocks of 300XP left. This 50XP is discarded
You start your new year as Platinum with a starting balance of 300XP and a reduced wait time of 9 consecutive years to get to PfL.
Example 3
If you finish this year with 1790XP:
Step 1: (1790-300 = 1490XP) : 300XP deducted to give you a new year of Platinum
Step 2: (1490 -300 = 1190XP): 300XP deducted and passed on to next year as your maximum rollover amount (already guaranteeing that you will make Platinum again in 1 year's time)
Step 3a: (1190-300 = 890XP): 300XP deducted to reduce your PfL timer from 10 consecutive years to 9 consecutive years
Step 3b: (890-300 = 590XP): 300XP deducted to reduce your PfL timer from 9 consecutive years to 8 consecutive years
Step 3c: (590-300 = 290XP): 300XP deducted to reduce your PfL timer from 8 consecutive years to 7 consecutive years
Remainder = 290XP: - no more blocks of 300XP left. This 290XP is discarded
You start your new year as Platinum with a starting balance of 300XP and a reduced wait time of 7 consecutive years to get to PfL
Balances required at the time of your transition to shorten your wait time for PfL
On the date of your transition from the old to the new scheme, the following balances will have the indicated effect on your wait time for PfL:
0-899XP: No effect; 10 consecutive years required to get to PfL
900-1199XP: PfL after 9 consecutive years
1200-1499XP: PfL after 8 consecutive years
1500-1799XP: PfL after 7 consecutive years
1800-2099XP: PfL after 6 consecutive years
2100-2399XP: PfL after 5 consecutive years
etc etc etc....
For renewals, after Nov 2025 (New system):
300-600XP You will burn 300XP for renewal and roll over what's left
601+ You will renew plat and retain a flat 300XP
To help you calculate your own situation, you can use the calculator shared by @sehgalanuj on post #239 : https://sehgalanuj.github.io/xpcalc/
Full explanation with examples (recommended read): An important update regarding XP - What's new | Flying Blue
Our programme is evolving, and soon there will be a change to how surplus XP rolls over to future qualification periods.
As of 1 November 2024, as a Flying Blue Platinum member you will be able to carry over a maximum of 300 XP to your next qualification period, on top of what is ordinarily required to qualify for or maintain your Platinum status.
If you currently have more than 300 XP in your counter don't worry: during the one-year transition phase, for every 300 XP in your counter in excess of the 300 XP cap, you will receive one year towards your Platinum for Life counter, helping you earn lifetime status even sooner.
Please note that as of 1 November 2024 you must earn 300 XP each subsequent qualification period to qualify for Flying Blue Platinum.
Will XP rollover become limited in 2025?
Oct 30, 2023, 11:21 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Somewhere between BHX and HUY
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Eurobonus Silver, ALL Gold
Posts: 1,676
Will XP rollover become limited in 2025?
Creating a new thread to discuss the rumors started on the ulti thread:
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status - Page 428 - FlyerTalk Forums
...according to which XP rollover will have a limit in the future, which alledgedly was reported by separate people.
Truth or scare?
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status - Page 428 - FlyerTalk Forums
...according to which XP rollover will have a limit in the future, which alledgedly was reported by separate people.
Truth or scare?
Oct 30, 2023, 11:39 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Somewhere between BHX and HUY
Programs: Flying Blue Plat, Eurobonus Silver, ALL Gold
Posts: 1,676
I don't think that was explicitly mentioned as part of the rumor... only people who were afraid that it would be the next thing to go or that the change would impact their own PFL status. Understandable for people who are sat with 2k+ XP in the bank.
I personally don't see the business sense behind giving XP an expiry date, because it encourages you to only fly as much as you need and not above, so I'm hoping the rumor is false, but let's see.
I personally don't see the business sense behind giving XP an expiry date, because it encourages you to only fly as much as you need and not above, so I'm hoping the rumor is false, but let's see.
Oct 30, 2023, 11:42 am
#4
Join Date: Jul 2021
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Accor Gold
Posts: 186
I think for Ultimate the XP rollover limit will indeed be 900 UXP, so maybe the new rule is that you can only rollover double than the current qualification threshold?
It would be strange to say the least because it would definitely discourage flyers from flying with AFKL. It could come as a liberation in a way to simply become a free agent after you get your 300 XP annually, but it would make little business sense for AFKL unless they have some tricks up their sleeve that will be announced soon as well.
It would also discourage upsells such as CO2 contributions or changing a flight to European business class for the XP, so will be very interesting to understand the logic behind. Unless they introduce something new at 600 XP.
It would be strange to say the least because it would definitely discourage flyers from flying with AFKL. It could come as a liberation in a way to simply become a free agent after you get your 300 XP annually, but it would make little business sense for AFKL unless they have some tricks up their sleeve that will be announced soon as well.
It would also discourage upsells such as CO2 contributions or changing a flight to European business class for the XP, so will be very interesting to understand the logic behind. Unless they introduce something new at 600 XP.
Oct 30, 2023, 12:24 pm
#5
Join Date: Jun 2020
Programs: FlyingBlue
Posts: 2,424
That was part of the rumor mill last summer, too.
And let's be honest, it would be a cunning way to drain all those pesky stored XPs at a minimal cost ! Given how small the difference is between Gold/Plat, and Plat/Ulti, one could imagine creating a 600 XP tier with only access to TA line or something like this...
And let's be honest, it would be a cunning way to drain all those pesky stored XPs at a minimal cost ! Given how small the difference is between Gold/Plat, and Plat/Ulti, one could imagine creating a 600 XP tier with only access to TA line or something like this...
Oct 30, 2023, 12:46 pm
#6
Join Date: Oct 2019
Programs: Flying Blue, Hilton Honors, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 2,407
From that thread, it looks like it's just speculation from a couple of ULTIs.
Rollover elite credit does encourage continuing to book revenue fares (rather than switching airlines or shifting to award flights). It seems likely that DL will be learning this in about a year.
It should also be noted that the ULTI rollover limit is arguably a true improvement from the previous ULTI program as far as rollover is concerned (as there was no UXP rollover before), so the introduction of UXP rollover isn't evidence of a desire to squash rollover by AFKL. This may be a manifestation of confusion between UXP and XP, though.
If there is a fear that there are too many Platinums sitting on XP balances and waiting out their PfL status without flying revenue fares, there are more effective ways of dealing with that which preserve rollover. For example, a Diamond or Titanium level could be introduced at 500 XP with marginally improved benefits over Platinum which would soak up rollover XP. Alternatively an annual AFKL revenue segment or credit card requirement could be instituted for Platinum rollover.
Rollover elite credit does encourage continuing to book revenue fares (rather than switching airlines or shifting to award flights). It seems likely that DL will be learning this in about a year.
It should also be noted that the ULTI rollover limit is arguably a true improvement from the previous ULTI program as far as rollover is concerned (as there was no UXP rollover before), so the introduction of UXP rollover isn't evidence of a desire to squash rollover by AFKL. This may be a manifestation of confusion between UXP and XP, though.
If there is a fear that there are too many Platinums sitting on XP balances and waiting out their PfL status without flying revenue fares, there are more effective ways of dealing with that which preserve rollover. For example, a Diamond or Titanium level could be introduced at 500 XP with marginally improved benefits over Platinum which would soak up rollover XP. Alternatively an annual AFKL revenue segment or credit card requirement could be instituted for Platinum rollover.
Oct 30, 2023, 1:54 pm
#7
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: BRE
Programs: Flying Blue Ultimate, LATAM Black, Vistara Gold, Accor/IHG Platinum, Marriott/Hilton Gold
Posts: 480
If there is a fear that there are too many Platinums sitting on XP balances and waiting out their PfL status without flying revenue fares, there are more effective ways of dealing with that which preserve rollover. For example, a Diamond or Titanium level could be introduced at 500 XP with marginally improved benefits over Platinum which would soak up rollover XP. Alternatively an annual AFKL revenue segment or credit card requirement could be instituted for Platinum rollover.
I've been expecting some kind of change to show up in terms of qualification thresholds, but stripping away rollover and removing PFL really seems like a move that has the potential to convert a bunch of relatively loyal fliers to free agents. Doesn't make sense to me but let's see.
You're also right that it just seems to be speculation. Until there's real info, there's no point in dwelling over it too much, especially given that the rollover UXP for Ultimate is also an improvement. So it doesn't seem that FB is motivated to saw the branch under themselves ala Delta.
Last edited by sehgalanuj; Oct 31, 2023 at 12:03 am
Oct 30, 2023, 2:55 pm
#8
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PAR, TYO, SEL, SIN, SYD
Programs: AF/KLM Platinum Ultimate, VA Velocity Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 716
From that thread, it looks like it's just speculation from a couple of ULTIs.
Rollover elite credit does encourage continuing to book revenue fares (rather than switching airlines or shifting to award flights). It seems likely that DL will be learning this in about a year.
It should also be noted that the ULTI rollover limit is arguably a true improvement from the previous ULTI program as far as rollover is concerned (as there was no UXP rollover before), so the introduction of UXP rollover isn't evidence of a desire to squash rollover by AFKL. This may be a manifestation of confusion between UXP and XP, though.
If there is a fear that there are too many Platinums sitting on XP balances and waiting out their PfL status without flying revenue fares, there are more effective ways of dealing with that which preserve rollover. For example, a Diamond or Titanium level could be introduced at 500 XP with marginally improved benefits over Platinum which would soak up rollover XP. Alternatively an annual AFKL revenue segment or credit card requirement could be instituted for Platinum rollover.
Rollover elite credit does encourage continuing to book revenue fares (rather than switching airlines or shifting to award flights). It seems likely that DL will be learning this in about a year.
It should also be noted that the ULTI rollover limit is arguably a true improvement from the previous ULTI program as far as rollover is concerned (as there was no UXP rollover before), so the introduction of UXP rollover isn't evidence of a desire to squash rollover by AFKL. This may be a manifestation of confusion between UXP and XP, though.
If there is a fear that there are too many Platinums sitting on XP balances and waiting out their PfL status without flying revenue fares, there are more effective ways of dealing with that which preserve rollover. For example, a Diamond or Titanium level could be introduced at 500 XP with marginally improved benefits over Platinum which would soak up rollover XP. Alternatively an annual AFKL revenue segment or credit card requirement could be instituted for Platinum rollover.
Oct 30, 2023, 3:57 pm
#10
Join Date: Nov 2021
Programs: FB
Posts: 195
Here's where I am: 5 years to PFL. 900 XP banked, and about half of that in the past year. My nearest airport is a *A hub; I got hooked on FB when I was hub captive to them, and when I moved out here, the deal got better. I have a credit card I wouldn't otherwise use, and I put most of my big-ticket expenses on it. On the other hand, I've gotten more Y-to-J OpUps from *A with just a FF # than I've ever gotten as a FB Plat, and that's not mentioning the fact that those FB OpUps were intra-Europe and the *A ones were TATL. Okay, fine, I've also gotten 3 TATL AF/KL OpUps: 2 from Y to the glorious AF shell-seat W, and one from said shell W to J.
Anyway, I've not been banking these XP assuming FB would stay the same; I'm not an idiot. But I've got a lot of flying to do in the next few years. I'm currently both bringing premium revenue to AFKL and denying even more to their competition. This rumored XP cap would effectively offer my home team the chance to status match and give me a two-year trial period of non-stop flights, choice lounges, and optimal service. And, hell, if PFL is off the table, why would I even bother with FB?
We'll see what the future brings. I've given AFKL my loyalty; it's up to them to lose it.
Anyway, I've not been banking these XP assuming FB would stay the same; I'm not an idiot. But I've got a lot of flying to do in the next few years. I'm currently both bringing premium revenue to AFKL and denying even more to their competition. This rumored XP cap would effectively offer my home team the chance to status match and give me a two-year trial period of non-stop flights, choice lounges, and optimal service. And, hell, if PFL is off the table, why would I even bother with FB?
We'll see what the future brings. I've given AFKL my loyalty; it's up to them to lose it.
Oct 31, 2023, 3:51 am
#11
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS, BRU, POA
Programs: Skyteam E+ (FB PfL), Latam Black, LH MM, Iberia plus, HH: Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy: Plat
Posts: 1,124
The rumor has been there for years, but I'm not aware of a single, official, reliable source talking about PfL cancellation.
Oct 31, 2023, 11:41 am
#13
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,051
I believe FB is allow to stop the qualification for P4L but I assume the actual members who have been already granted to the Platinum status for life cannot be dismissed of it
Last edited by Bullspread; Oct 31, 2023 at 12:19 pm
Nov 2, 2023, 8:02 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2015
Programs: FB platinum
Posts: 378
Well that was just confirmed... Received this by email now:
There is a provision for current members though (a nice one actually).
Notre programme Flying Blue évolue. Des changements s’appliqueront bientôt sur la manière dont votre surplus de XP se reportera sur vos futures périodes de qualification.
À compter du 1er novembre 2024, en tant que membre Flying Blue Platinum, vous pourrez reporter au maximum 300 XP sur votre prochaine période de qualification, en plus du nombre de XP habituellement requis pour obtenir ou maintenir votre statut Platinum.
Si vous détenez actuellement plus de 300 XP, pas d’inquiétude.
Pendant une période de transition d’un an, chaque tranche de 300 XP de votre surplus sera convertie en 1 année de qualification pour l’obtention du statut Platinum for Life, vous permettant ainsi d’accéder plus rapidement à ce statut acquis à vie.
Veuillez noter qu’à partir du 1er novembre 2024, il vous faudra gagner 300 XP au cours de chaque période de qualification pour obtenir ou maintenir votre statut Flying Blue Platinum.
À compter du 1er novembre 2024, en tant que membre Flying Blue Platinum, vous pourrez reporter au maximum 300 XP sur votre prochaine période de qualification, en plus du nombre de XP habituellement requis pour obtenir ou maintenir votre statut Platinum.
Si vous détenez actuellement plus de 300 XP, pas d’inquiétude.
Pendant une période de transition d’un an, chaque tranche de 300 XP de votre surplus sera convertie en 1 année de qualification pour l’obtention du statut Platinum for Life, vous permettant ainsi d’accéder plus rapidement à ce statut acquis à vie.
Veuillez noter qu’à partir du 1er novembre 2024, il vous faudra gagner 300 XP au cours de chaque période de qualification pour obtenir ou maintenir votre statut Flying Blue Platinum.