SF_trotter

I have an upcoming itinerary that connects through AMS. Due to a change in plans, I want to change my final destination. Changing the ticket is not an option as the cost would be prohibitive. I'm tempted to just throw away the final segment of my original ticket and buy a new ticket altogether from AMS to my new destination. Does AF/KL routinely check its bookings to ferret out double bookings? What would be the likely punishment?

fifty_two

you can but you should check-in your luggages to AMS only or travel with hand luggage only otherwise you will be in troubles and it will cost you more than changing destination of your original booking

No

nothing , but you shouldnt do that all the time , cause airlines hate it , so once in a while its ok and wont get spotted

carnarvon

As far as I know, this is an urban legend.

It is what many people fear would happen which they translated into an established fact, which is not a fact because it has actually never happened with AF/KL. LH has tried once but lost in court. Never heard of any other European airline trying to punish a customer for not using a service that he has paid for.

Please feel free to state facts and actual first hand testimonies (not hearsay) showing that I am wrong.

SF_trotter

Thanks, fifty_two and carnarvon , for the reassuring insight!

I know there's little or no chance that they would crack down on throwaway ticketing, but didn't know whether they would cancel a reservation that they detect to be overlapping with an existing one. US carriers are certainly known to do this.

The advice I've seen in the past always suggested booking the second reservation on a different airline, but in this case only KLM has a suitable flight to my new destination. I'm glad it won't be an issue.

fifty_two

a legend that airline dont like hidden city ?

One word that you quoted and missed summarized what i think

thats the question i also have folr you = where did i said so ?

flyerCO

Being double booked is separate from throwaway ticketing.

KL like most airlines will detect double/impossible bookings. They do indeed cancel them. However normally they will ask which you wish to cancel.

If throwaway is a legal issue or not is completely separate from issue OP will have.

carnarvon

Didn't you write "nothing , but you shouldnt do that all the time , cause airlines hate it , so once in a while its ok and wont get spotted"?

So I repeat : can you give an actual example for AF/KL "spotting" a customer who regularly doesn't use a coupon and retaliates one way or another?

Whether AF/KL hate it or not is not the question. The fact is they don't do anything about it. I even have had the Plat line suggest to me to buy return ticket and not use the return leg because the OW was so expensive. She commented that many people do it.

carnarvon

Has this ever happened to you? Or to someone you know? Or have you read a reliable testimony?

I am asking the question, because I don't understand how two bookings on two different PNR can be reconciled by the system.

By name? Well, tons of people bear the same name.

What else? Then, they would need to pay people to contact the customer to ask what?

If the ticket is not refundable, the customer is perfectly in its right to change his mind and not fly, isn't he? Or buy two tickets because he does not know yet when he will fly. Etc...

So, I am curious to know how airlines would manage the spotting of double bookings on a systematic basis and demand that the customer cancels one or the other.

irishguy28

Name, address, email address, phone number, credit card details....and for an airline, frequent flyer number.

I recently attempted to make a booking on a hotel website after a room became available on their own website at a cheaper rate than the booking I already held with a third party agency - but the website wouldn't accept the booking as they recognised that I already had a booking for the same nights. (When I rebook, I like to book the replacement [cheaper] rate before cancelling the one I already hold)

Xandrios

It can definitely happen from a technical perspective. Name, Email, phone, age, and such are all factors that the system can use to determine something to be duplicate to a specific degree of certainty.

But I would not expect the airline to randomly cancel anything. They would not know what flight you are intending to take. And they may also still need that verification from your side that these two bookings indeed both belong to you. If they would not do that I could screw anybody (Celebrity, Politician or whomever else) that I know to be on a flight at a certain date to just book another ticket in their name.

With KLM specifically I do not have any experience on this matter. Never had any of these issues, though I dont believe that I ever had overlapping bookings either. With other airlines (e.g. Aegean) I have - they will contact you if you have multiple bookings on the same route close in date. Even if they don't overlap but are a day apart, for instance.

fifty_two

yes i did , and the word you missed was "nothing" and instead started to focus on the rest of the sentence

No , because i never said so , but you decided to make an interpretation of my statement

As you wish , but where did i mentionned AFKL in this sentence ? the word "airlines" does mean AFKL for you ?? It is a general advice that i gave OP and it doesnt apply to AFKL as you misunderstood , but to airlines in general .

flyerCO

FF # is easiest way. However even with out, there's other pieces of information that can be matched.

AFAIK booking "impossible" reservations is against CoC/policies for nearly every, if not all airlines in the world. How well each airline does at catching can vary widely.

SF_trotter

They're separate, but related. If the ban on throwaway ticketing is deemed to be unenforceable, wouldn't that mean the passenger is free to purchase another ticket? And what would then be the distinction between buying the new ticket on a different airline and on the original airline?

I started doing a little research and ended up going down a rabbit hole.

Interestingly, KLM's CoC mentions having to use the flight coupons in order and in full only once.

Section 3.4(a):

• The Fare including Tax, established on the basis of the details, flight dates and routes mentioned on the Ticket, corresponds to a Place of Departure and a Place of Destination, via a Stopover scheduled when the Ticket was purchased and forms integral part of the Contract of Carriage. The Fare applied on the Ticket issue date is only valid for a Ticket used fully and in the sequential order of Flight Coupons, for the specified journey and on the specified dates.

Paragraph (b) then describes fees for "non-compliant use" of ticket coupons ranging from €125 - 1,500, but they seem to only apply to passengers who have skipped/missed a flight and want to use the remaining coupons.

There is no mention of penalties for passengers who otherwise violate 3.4(a). There is also no mention of throwaway ticketing (or similar) under Article 9: Refusal And Limitation On Carriage.

Contrast this with UA's CoC, for example, which not only explicitly mentions and bans Hidden Cities Ticketing, Point Beyond Ticketing, Throwaway Ticketing, and Back-to-Back Ticketing, but also specifically lists UA's Remedies for Violations of Rules.

They include, among others, invalidate the tickets, permanently ban the passenger, assess the passenger for the actual value of the ticket, and delete miles in the passenger's frequent flyers account (Rule 6 Tickets). There's also a Rule 5 Cancellation of Reservations that gives UA the right to cancel reservations booked with no intention of flying.

I wonder if European carriers removed similar provisions from their CoCs after the Oct 2019 German court ruling? It would be interesting to get a current data point specific to KLM/AF (or other EU carriers).

Was this recent, after the 2019 ruling? For paid tickets, as opposed to unpaid reservations? I wonder what would have happened if you told them you'd like to keep both bookings?

Xandrios

Yes, just a few months ago. Two one ways on the same route, same direction, two days apart. I suspect I would have been able to get away with it if I had said that I had another flight back to the starting point on the in between day, time-wise that was easily possible. In my case I had booked both because I wasn’t yet sure which day I would travel - and told them I would cancel one of the two in time (Which I did).

jkatzen16

Hi - perhaps this is best to post in the general forum, but I'm in almost the exact same predicament you were in and I'm curious of your outcome. I am booked LAX -> AMS -> LYS on an award ticket via KLM, but the event I'm attending has changed and I now need to get to Porto that evening instead. KLM is the only airline that flies direct AMS -> OPO. So, I'd essentially be double booked on KLM: (1) original award ticket AMS -> LYS, and (2) potentially new cash ticket AMS -> OPO. I know airlines don't love the no-show on the final leg of a booking, and I called in to see if they could change it, but it would require building a new award itinerary from scratch (not an option). I'm not checking a bag, so that's one less thing to worry about if I just double book and take the flight from AMS to OPO. Any thoughts appreciated.