brunos

Agreed. But things like change fee, refund fee also matter.

Fabo.sk

It can, but typically people for whom it does would have used TAs, only more recently corporate-oriented online systems.
A private buyer who cares about flexibility and buys online is quite rare I think.

BigFlyer

As a Delta Silver Medallion it looks like I would be exempt from the baggage fee. However, I usually travel with carry on only. Problem is it is a North American size bag and is usually overweight. I never have a problem, but my fear is that they will enforce the carry on limits more strictly in order to maximize the checked bag revenue.

Also - the Delta Basic Economy fares do not allow any advance seat selection, even for elites. I hope KLM does not adopt this policy to harmonize similar products with Delta.

Keter

Thats a shame and... an unfortunate trend in downgrading elite benefits across alliances.

CyBeR

The entire point of basic economy is to not have such amenities though. If you then allow elites to still have them, your product is basically just a discount to them.

So not allowing even elites to do seat selection on basic economy fares makes perfect sense.

ranskis

And that is the point of having elite benefits: you reward loyalty with valuable benefits that don't cost you much. If the elite member would have paid for seat selection, you loose a bit of additional revenue. If the elite member would not have paid for seat selection anyway, you don't make more money. And if the elite member is pissed off by this race to the bottom, he will go elsewhere, be less loyal and you then loose the full revenue in case of non full flights, and to get full flights, you need to lower your fares even more to make them competitive for your ex frequent fliers that won't be attracted by your general offering.

Frequent Flyer programs have this very specific aspect of driving their customers to make irrational purchase decisions (especially when someone else pays for the bill, it is a kind of corruption then). FT is full of such irrational behaviours.

CyBeR

How many FFPs do you know that just flat out give a discount to its elite members? Because if you have a discounted fare product such as basic economy but then continue to give everything that fare would normally not include for free, then that's effectively what you've done.

You buy the basic economy fare with the understanding that such benefits do not apply.

FT is also full of people with a false sense of entitlement and a seemingly complete lack of understanding of how businesses work.

ranskis

Almost all of them: Lounge access is 50 USD if flying economy but if you are Gold it is for free, so de facto a 50 USD discount. Lounge access, seat assignment, checked bag, this is more and more sold separately yet frequent flyer programs include some them in their offering to convince their frequent fliers to fly them more often, to go the extra mile to fly them, or to keep flying them and not similarly priced competitors that would not give such benefits.

Since you know so well how running a business work, you should know that if price is the main differentiating factor in a competitive utilities business, then margins tend to be very low. Adding differentiation (loyalty is just an example) is precisely the main leverage to increase margins.

CyBeR

I'm sorry, I was pre-occupied and typed too quickly. Obviously I meant a *fare* discount.

Sjondorn

BigFlyer

How are DL and KL going to harmonize the DL basic economy fares with the KLM light fares? Usually, the fares are the same on their TATL flights. KL Light allows Elites to select seats (and non elites to pay for an advance seat), while DL allows no advance seat selection.

Perhaps it will be metal dependent. Right now (before KL Light and DL Basic Economy), all Delta passengers can select a seat in advance for free, while non-elite KLM passengers, travelling on an identical fare, have to pay extra to select a seat. Same for UA/LH.

CyBeR

They aren't; those are different products. Basic Economy is a DL Domestic-only product; these Light fares (that do include seat selection, albeit for a fee for non-elites) are international fares.

BigFlyer

They are international as well:

Delta expands Basic Economy across Atlantic, partners introduce similar fare product | Delta News Hub

"Delta Air Lines' Basic Economy fare is now available on more than 50 percent of Delta's flights between North America and Europe. Today's Basic Economy fare expansion to trans-Atlantic flights operating April 10, 2018, and beyond, comes as partners Air France-KLM and Alitalia each introduce a similar basic fare product across the Atlantic on the same date."

CyBeR

I stand corrected; I hadn't seen that DL's version of the light tatl fares is basically the same as the basic economy they already had. That makes the AF/KL version of that fare quite a bit better even on the same metal. I think the pricing is similar, no?

BigFlyer

I'm not sure how this works out. The current practice is the Delta and KLM fares are parallel and identically priced in every respect. I believe The Delta Basic Economy fares line up with the KLM light fares in every respect except seat selection. One reason for this might be that KLM has already been charging non-elites for advance seat selection, while Delta has had free advance seat selection for everyone until Basic Economy came around - where seat selection is not available for any price.