May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Aug 4, 2018, 8:07 am
#1351
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Hhhhhmmmm... Yes and no. I am confident there are some good people out there, willing to see things liven up (I am evidently not talking about the exec board
). But how can things move forth in an environment renowned for its lack of professionalism and accountability? At the risk of making a questionable analogy in reference to a previous post, the AF(KL) staff is a bit like the J cabin, that is inconsistent, with admirable people, eager to do well (best and beyond), and lazy, self-centered ones, who could not care less about the airline and its (most loyal) customers (worst and beyond 
).Macaron54
Aug 5, 2018, 5:31 am
#1352
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 60
I am afraid that in the eyes of the Dutch snollygosters, whatever directive emanates from the Paris offices is an affront to their dignity, and a just cause to drag their feet. The program will remain what it is, flaky and inconsistent, for as long as its practical implementation is in the hands of an insubordinate staff undeterred by a possible retribution. The program management may very well levy to all staffs, AF and KL alike, directives as to how Ultimate PAXs ought to be handled, in the air and on the ground. We are still at the mercy of the weakest link in the chain of command to show willingness to execute these directives. Seriously, what good can be expected from employees ready to scuttle their own ship? Isn't the Ultimate program just another reason for insubordination?
Macaron54
Aug 5, 2018, 6:49 am
#1353
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
I agree so much with you Macaron54, and that’s actually the reason why I am asking myself the same question since I became Ultimate: the Management knowing that the staff will not respect further directives, and knowing that they are not able to finance higher benefits (dedicated lounges, limousine service, etc), why a hell did they went for that higher status??? Higher status to very frequent travellers is logically generating even more expectations from these card holders; why to shoot in your own foot if you know that you are not able to lauch such a « high end » loyalty program? The Management for sure knew what other airlines are offering to their very frequent traveller (we mentioned e.g. LH HON a few times already); how can they create such an expectation and then fail so miserably? May be their was a pressure from frequent customers asking for more comforts on AF/KL flights? But again, once you create the new status, the customer is logically expecting something... At the time we was all Platinum, we didn’t complained about missing benefits as this « high end » status was simply not existing!
With a little over a year of hindsight as Ultimate, I have come to realize one important thing though. As you correctly underscore the financial fragility of the group imposes budget restrictions on the program. Yet, there are admittedly benefits that cost money and benefits that cost nothing. For instance, increasing the fleet of rental limos at CDG to expedite transfer of Ultimate's between terminals has a measurable cost, and we can see why AF is reluctant to offer this benefit systematically (they can request that a ground staff escorts you, just in case you don't know how to ride the bus by yourself
). Conversely, offering you a glass of champagne from the P cabin when you fly in J, or a welcome drink from the J cabin, possibly an oshi-bori, when you fly in Y or W has zero cost, and yet, it is not done in a systematic fashion. It relies on the willingness of the purser/chief purser to follow (possibly interpret) the directives of the program management. In a normal (functional) airline, employees, on the ground and in the air alike, would play by the book, and PAXs would get consistent benefits irrespective of their flight. Not at AFKL. You can get the best possible attention, or be completely ignored. In the lounge, you can be welcomed with a smile, given your favorite journal, ushered to the dedicated private space, and have an appointment made on your behalf for a facial. Or you can simply get nothing depending on the team on duty (at AMS, you simply get zilch, so KL cannot be accused of being inconsistent ). And we have the same spiel aboard. Some Russian roulette as to whether or not the chief purser will follow the Paris directives, set the tone and go the extra miles for the Ultimate's aboard. For some pursers, as I have witnessed it myself, the Ultimate program is an aberration, and if you fly in Y or W, regardless of your status, you will remain in their eyes a plebeian PAX, amid the riffraff. As long as the airline remains dysfunctional, with employees doing what they want, without fear of retribution, I see no reason why implementation of the program (not the program per se) would improve for our benefit.Macaron54
Aug 5, 2018, 8:16 am
#1354
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,927
I agree so much with you Macaron54, and that’s actually the reason why I am asking myself the same question since I became Ultimate: the Management knowing that the staff will not respect further directives, and knowing that they are not able to finance higher benefits (dedicated lounges, limousine service, etc), why a hell did they went for that higher status??? Higher status to very frequent travellers is logically generating even more expectations from these card holders; why to shoot in your own foot if you know that you are not able to lauch such a « high end » loyalty program? The Management for sure knew what other airlines are offering to their very frequent traveller (we mentioned e.g. LH HON a few times already); how can they create such an expectation and then fail so miserably? May be their was a pressure from frequent customers asking for more comforts on AF/KL flights? But again, once you create the new status, the customer is logically expecting something... At the time we was all Platinum, we didn’t complained about missing benefits as this « high end » status was simply not existing!
) have raised to AF when they launched the program. It was presented to us as a magnificent program and so we had high expectations. But in real there were almost no tangible benefits, and so we were all very upset while we were very happy before as « simple platinums ». I even said to AF in April/May 2017 that they’d better stop giving new Ulti card because they shoot themselves in the foot each time they give one and it is very dangerous to upset your best customers.To be fair, significant improvements were made to the program in the following months thanks to the feedback we provided to AF, but 99% of those improvements were on AF side with nada (or close to) on KL. But now we are entering into another dangerous zone because :
- the TA service is not always at the expected level, and their actions are less and less proactive (compared to the beginning of the program)
- AF ops are currently in a complete mess leading to flight cancellations, huge flight delays and a very important number of bag delayed/lost and this is upsetting many customers, Ulti included of course as we are more prone to face such problems with our frequency of travels.
- non-sense recent business decisions like no rollover of UXP
- Ulti still means nothing with KL. As a very frequent AF/CDG traveller, I clearly feel and enjoy some Ulti benefits much more than our KL/AMS traveller counterparts.
- ridiculous customer service response to complaints (at least in my experience).
A lot of room for improvement...
Aug 5, 2018, 8:25 am
#1355
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 60
I am in AMS right now on my way to Asia; the lounge (international departures) is under construction for many months now and the available space / number of seats is limited (actually still quite big, but simply not big enough). It was purely impossible to find a seat; completely crowded with families flying for holidays with their kids (probably with one of the family member holding a Gold / Platinum card, or who booked J tickets for the family trip with his collected miles).
I went out of the lounge and sit now downstairs in the Heineken sportbar enjoying a beer in an even more quiet environment compared to the kids club, sorry to the SkyPriority lounge upstairs!
So good to be Ultimate at KLM!!! Today I would even welcome the ridiculous 3x3m area I have been recently in CDG 2G lounge and which is reserved for Ultimates!
I went out of the lounge and sit now downstairs in the Heineken sportbar enjoying a beer in an even more quiet environment compared to the kids club, sorry to the SkyPriority lounge upstairs!
So good to be Ultimate at KLM!!! Today I would even welcome the ridiculous 3x3m area I have been recently in CDG 2G lounge and which is reserved for Ultimates!
Aug 5, 2018, 10:14 am
#1356
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
This is typically the sort of thing that should never happen. For shame! Please, document this with pictures and escalate (and of course, post the pix's on this thread).
Aug 5, 2018, 10:32 am
#1357
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,927
I am in AMS right now on my way to Asia; the lounge (international departures) is under construction for many months now and the available space / number of seats is limited (actually still quite big, but simply not big enough). It was purely impossible to find a seat; completely crowded with families flying for holidays with their kids (probably with one of the family member holding a Gold / Platinum card, or who booked J tickets for the family trip with his collected miles).
I went out of the lounge and sit now downstairs in the Heineken sportbar enjoying a beer in an even more quiet environment compared to the kids club, sorry to the SkyPriority lounge upstairs!
So good to be Ultimate at KLM!!! Today I would even welcome the ridiculous 3x3m area I have been recently in CDG 2G lounge and which is reserved for Ultimates!
I went out of the lounge and sit now downstairs in the Heineken sportbar enjoying a beer in an even more quiet environment compared to the kids club, sorry to the SkyPriority lounge upstairs!
So good to be Ultimate at KLM!!! Today I would even welcome the ridiculous 3x3m area I have been recently in CDG 2G lounge and which is reserved for Ultimates!
Aug 5, 2018, 10:39 am
#1358
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 760
I come often in 2G and never saw the reserved area occupied.
So then they will lower the service to their normal elites which will file a complaint for sure.
I think that’s their logic.
Aug 5, 2018, 12:03 pm
#1359
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
not totally true. Because of lacking capacity, reserved seats will increase even more lacking capacity. And the question is how many Ultimates are actually using it? Maybe not that many.
I come often in 2G and never saw the reserved area occupied.
So then they will lower the service to their normal elites which will file a complaint for sure.
I think that’s their logic.
I come often in 2G and never saw the reserved area occupied.
So then they will lower the service to their normal elites which will file a complaint for sure.
I think that’s their logic.
Not quite. There might be Ultimate's who do not use their dedicated reserved space. At CDG 2G, I personally never use it. It is so tacky and conspicuous. I have seen PAXs look at this pen in bewildered awe, and fear they would throw peanuts at me
. I just prefer to mingle and use the work space.
Aug 5, 2018, 12:16 pm
#1360
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 760
Not quite. There might be Ultimate's who do not use their dedicated reserved space. At CDG 2G, I personally never use it. It is so tacky and conspicuous. I have seen PAXs look at this pen in bewildered awe, and fear they would throw peanuts at me
. I just prefer to mingle and use the work space.
probably KL did some calculations about how many Ultimates would show up per day.
Aug 5, 2018, 11:16 pm
#1361
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, JetBlue Mosaic, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska MVP Gold.
Posts: 1,962
Oh, please. These are lofty assumptions made in an airport where there's never been any meaningful Ultimate service at all. KLM either doesn't care, or knows that Schiphol beholden Ultimates are just not in a position to go anywhere else and isn't investing in it.
Aug 6, 2018, 1:42 am
#1362
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: France
Programs: LH Senator, AF/KL Platinum Ultimate, Le Club Accor Hotels Diamond, Nordic Choice Hotels Platinum
Posts: 60
By the way, landed now in Asia, and even no « Welcome Mr Pamplona » in the plane this time (Ultimate in KLM business class). On this trip, very exactly ZERO benefit compared to a one-time traveller: no seat in the lounge, no welcome in the plane, and of course nothing shared from P class, as KLM doesn’t provide P.
So good to be Ultimate (!).
Aug 6, 2018, 2:39 am
#1363
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Programs: FB Plat for life, FB PC, M&M FT, Hertz President (+ many low tier cards)
Posts: 2,777
It's the holding pen look and feel that might feel a bit too visibly and awkwardly elitarian to many Dutch. At least, it would to me! Could be that the lounge staff feels the same about it.
Aug 6, 2018, 3:09 am
#1364
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Ah, sorry, I didn’t took pictures! I am actullay not the guy who would complain / let escalate such kind of things. For example, I have never called the TA either. They need to know by themselves what they should do / what they are doing; if they don’t, they simply need to expect consequences...
With all due respects, you have got it all wrong, Pamplona. Here is how things (seem to) work in the chain of command:
- The program management (O. Brung/F. Kahane) set directives as to how Ultimate customers ought to be handled
- The TA team is informed of these directives and reports irregularities whenever misapplied
- The Ultimate directives are propagated to all AFKL crews, hubs and outstations
- Because this is AFKL, enforcement of the Ultimate directives is subservient to the willingness of the staff to do so
- Ultimate customers report to the TA team failures to deliver the promised benefits (go to 2)
Macaron54
Aug 6, 2018, 10:35 am
#1365
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 191
I can't blame the inflight and ground staff for doing whatever they want. If the strategy is obscure, the processes are not well designed, the execution is not measured and managed, why should they put any efforts.
Ever seen super performing staff when the rules are blurr and the employer does not care about execution ? La Poste may be?
Until the management piece is fixed, employees are followed up and engaged, nothing will change.
Feeding TA repeatedly about anomalies is just useless if AF does not have the intention to integrate your remarks and to become customer centric.
Only option would be to make some collective noise and seriously consider giving AF a warning by for example flying some other airlines for 1 month but I don't see many with the guts to do it.
Sometimes I wish Emirates would buy AF.
Ever seen super performing staff when the rules are blurr and the employer does not care about execution ? La Poste may be?
Until the management piece is fixed, employees are followed up and engaged, nothing will change.
Feeding TA repeatedly about anomalies is just useless if AF does not have the intention to integrate your remarks and to become customer centric.
Only option would be to make some collective noise and seriously consider giving AF a warning by for example flying some other airlines for 1 month but I don't see many with the guts to do it.
Sometimes I wish Emirates would buy AF.