May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Dec 25, 2017, 11:39 pm
#976
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,939
- 3 from Y to C medium haul
- 1 from Y to W long-haul (2 pax)
Better than nothing and I am not complaining, but certainly not as nice as J to P
Dec 26, 2017, 2:40 am
#977
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
Can you approximately quantify the 'upgrade rates'?
If you're ultimate, you're likely to fly C/J quite often, so the likelyhood of being potentially upgraded is not so common (or do you fly a lot of routes with P?)
I guess, though, that when upgrades did not happen it was just because the premium cabins were full. Is that the case - or AFKL prefers to try to sell DoD upgrades instead of upgrading an Ultimate passenger?
Dec 26, 2017, 2:45 am
#978
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
The expectation of a systematic escort service might be unreasonable.
At airports where the law of large numbers applies, that service could be provided as a couple of additional AF staff might be kept reasonably busy throughout and devote their spare time to other tasks. But what about outstations where there is one longhaul flight a day and few Ulti showing up daily, if any? Some days are very light and they might devote a staff to a departing Y/J ulti showing up at some unexpected time (could be very early before the flight or just a few minutes after). On a heavy day, with full load, and many problems (transfer pax arriving late, opups, etc..), it is hard to envision blocking a very-busy staff just for Ulti. Flight arrival time is better known, but there could be a lot of work to make transfer pax get to their flights (or possibly taking care of rerouting). There might also be a lot of work to do on the turn-around flight leaving a couple of hours later. One staff could call sick, one flight could have a lot of problems requiring everyone assistance with lots of rebooking, finding hotels, etc... .Again, that is quite unpredictable from day to day.
Another question is whether private attention/escort should be assigned to a Y Ulti or a P pax.
AF might have induced unreasonable expectations among Ulti, and that was wrong. But it seems that they now suggest that escort is not automatic. Even having a list of airports where it is guaranteed seems to me unfeasible for operational reasons and would lead to severe disappointment.
I remember many years ago when I was flying AF P and treated as VIP. I had escort many times (most others P pax did not), but far from always. Sad but understandable.
At airports where the law of large numbers applies, that service could be provided as a couple of additional AF staff might be kept reasonably busy throughout and devote their spare time to other tasks. But what about outstations where there is one longhaul flight a day and few Ulti showing up daily, if any? Some days are very light and they might devote a staff to a departing Y/J ulti showing up at some unexpected time (could be very early before the flight or just a few minutes after). On a heavy day, with full load, and many problems (transfer pax arriving late, opups, etc..), it is hard to envision blocking a very-busy staff just for Ulti. Flight arrival time is better known, but there could be a lot of work to make transfer pax get to their flights (or possibly taking care of rerouting). There might also be a lot of work to do on the turn-around flight leaving a couple of hours later. One staff could call sick, one flight could have a lot of problems requiring everyone assistance with lots of rebooking, finding hotels, etc... .Again, that is quite unpredictable from day to day.
Another question is whether private attention/escort should be assigned to a Y Ulti or a P pax.
AF might have induced unreasonable expectations among Ulti, and that was wrong. But it seems that they now suggest that escort is not automatic. Even having a list of airports where it is guaranteed seems to me unfeasible for operational reasons and would lead to severe disappointment.
I remember many years ago when I was flying AF P and treated as VIP. I had escort many times (most others P pax did not), but far from always. Sad but understandable.
Last edited by brunos; Dec 26, 2017 at 3:13 am
Dec 26, 2017, 3:23 am
#979
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 🇸🇬 🇭🇰 🇫🇷
Programs: Many
Posts: 4,749
The expectation of a systematic escort service might be unreasonable.
At airports where the law of large number applies,that service could be provided as a couple of additional AF staff might be kept reasonably busy throughout and devote their spare time to other tasks. But what about outstations where there is one longhaul flight a day and few Ulti showing up daily, if any. Some days are very light and they might devote a staff to a departing Y/J ulti showing up at some unexpected time (could be very early before the flight or just a few minutes after). On a heavy day, with full load, and many problems (transfer pax arriving late, opups, etc..), it is hard to envision blocking a very-busy staff just for Ulti. Arrival time is better known, but there could be a lot of work to make transfer pax get to their flight (or possibly taking care of rerouting). There might also be a lot of work to do on the turn-around flight leaving a couple of hours later. One staff could call sick, one flight could have a lot of problems requiring everyone assistance with lots of rebooking, finding hotels, etc... .Again, that is quite unpredictable from day to day.
Another question is whether private attention/escort should be assigned to a Y Ulti or a P pax.
AF might have induced unreasonable expectations among Ulti and that was wrong. But it seems that they now suggest that escort is not automatic. Even having a list of airports where it is guaranteed seems to me unfeasible for operational reasons and would lead to severe disappointment.
I remember many years ago when I was flying AF P and treated as VIP. I had escort many times (most others P pax did not), but far from always.Sad but understandable.
At airports where the law of large number applies,that service could be provided as a couple of additional AF staff might be kept reasonably busy throughout and devote their spare time to other tasks. But what about outstations where there is one longhaul flight a day and few Ulti showing up daily, if any. Some days are very light and they might devote a staff to a departing Y/J ulti showing up at some unexpected time (could be very early before the flight or just a few minutes after). On a heavy day, with full load, and many problems (transfer pax arriving late, opups, etc..), it is hard to envision blocking a very-busy staff just for Ulti. Arrival time is better known, but there could be a lot of work to make transfer pax get to their flight (or possibly taking care of rerouting). There might also be a lot of work to do on the turn-around flight leaving a couple of hours later. One staff could call sick, one flight could have a lot of problems requiring everyone assistance with lots of rebooking, finding hotels, etc... .Again, that is quite unpredictable from day to day.
Another question is whether private attention/escort should be assigned to a Y Ulti or a P pax.
AF might have induced unreasonable expectations among Ulti and that was wrong. But it seems that they now suggest that escort is not automatic. Even having a list of airports where it is guaranteed seems to me unfeasible for operational reasons and would lead to severe disappointment.
I remember many years ago when I was flying AF P and treated as VIP. I had escort many times (most others P pax did not), but far from always.Sad but understandable.
I am sorry to disagree with you on this. AF knows perfectly how to treat their VIP customers. They do it several times a day at CDG, would it be for politicians, journalists, bloggers or former members of their board (that list is far from being complete). So the law of large numbers does not apply given (i) the current volume of daily VIP and (ii) the low number of Ultimate pax.
Recent example: SQ and Airbus just had a ceremony in TLS for the launch of the new A380 cabins. Famous blogger Sam Chui flew AF J from DXB to CDG to TLS to cover the event. He is FB Silver as per his boarding pass pictured in his videos. He got at least, as reported on his Instagram: personal escort at CDG straight from the door of the 77W to the reserved space in the 2F lounge as well as warm and personalised welcome from the crew on the domestic flight. Not so far from if not exactly what any Ultimate customer is supposed to receive. I am very glad for him (he seems to be a very nice guy) but feel very sorry for the poor Ultiimates in question.
Same applies for outstations. Believe me, when it comes to welcome or pamper whatever delegation, the station manager is here, even if the delegation in question is made of one person. Just like the Préfet is waiting with his white light shirt on the apron for any official to deplane at PTP, FDF or RUN airports. AF still has a very bureaucratic and diligent approach inherited from the years as state-owned company with those memos coming from the CEO's office. That is actually a very strong asset they have here. It seems though they did not decide to use it with their Ultimate customers.
Last edited by bodory; Dec 26, 2017 at 7:01 am
Dec 26, 2017, 7:15 am
#980
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
I am sorry to disagree with you on this. AF knows perfectly how to treat their VIP customers. They do it several times a day at CDG, would it be for politicians, journalists, bloggers or former members of their board (that list is far from being complete). So the law of large numbers does not apply given (i) the current volume of daily VIP and (ii) the low number of Ulti.
Dec 26, 2017, 7:59 am
#981
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
Hi brunos,
I am sorry to disagree with you on this. AF knows perfectly how to treat their VIP customers. They do it several times a day at CDG, would it be for politicians, journalists, bloggers or former members of their board (that list is far from being complete). So the law of large numbers does not apply given (i) the current volume of daily VIP and (ii) the low number of Ultimate pax.
Recent example: SQ and Airbus just had a ceremony in TLS for the launch of the new A380 cabins. Famous blogger Sam Chui flew AF J from DXB to CDG to TLS to cover the event. He is FB Silver as per his boarding pass pictured in his videos. He got at least, as reported on his Instagram: personal escort at CDG straight from the door of the 77W to the reserved space in the 2F lounge as well as warm and personalised welcome from the crew on the domestic flight. Not so far from if not exactly what any Ultimate customer is supposed to receive. I am very glad for him (he seems to be a very nice guy) but feel very sorry for the poor Ultiimates in question.
Same applies for outstations. Believe me, when it comes to welcome or pamper whatever delegation, the station manager is here, even if the delegation in question is made of one person. Just like the Préfet is waiting with his white light shirt on the apron for any official to deplane at PTP, FDF or RUN airports. AF still has a very bureaucratic and diligent approach inherited from the years as state-owned company with those memos coming from the CEO's office. That is actually a very strong asset they have here. It seems though they did not decide to use it with their Ultimate customers.
I am sorry to disagree with you on this. AF knows perfectly how to treat their VIP customers. They do it several times a day at CDG, would it be for politicians, journalists, bloggers or former members of their board (that list is far from being complete). So the law of large numbers does not apply given (i) the current volume of daily VIP and (ii) the low number of Ultimate pax.
Recent example: SQ and Airbus just had a ceremony in TLS for the launch of the new A380 cabins. Famous blogger Sam Chui flew AF J from DXB to CDG to TLS to cover the event. He is FB Silver as per his boarding pass pictured in his videos. He got at least, as reported on his Instagram: personal escort at CDG straight from the door of the 77W to the reserved space in the 2F lounge as well as warm and personalised welcome from the crew on the domestic flight. Not so far from if not exactly what any Ultimate customer is supposed to receive. I am very glad for him (he seems to be a very nice guy) but feel very sorry for the poor Ultiimates in question.
Same applies for outstations. Believe me, when it comes to welcome or pamper whatever delegation, the station manager is here, even if the delegation in question is made of one person. Just like the Préfet is waiting with his white light shirt on the apron for any official to deplane at PTP, FDF or RUN airports. AF still has a very bureaucratic and diligent approach inherited from the years as state-owned company with those memos coming from the CEO's office. That is actually a very strong asset they have here. It seems though they did not decide to use it with their Ultimate customers.
As I said, I believe that it is much easier to do it routinely at CDG where there have plenty of personnel and a significant daily number of Ulti and P pax.
It is more difficult at longhaul outstations where they have only one flight per day.
I have no doubt that they would manage the staff and expense if they wanted to, as they do, once in a while, for "exceptional" people. But remember that the Ulti escort service is more than simply being greeted by the station manager, and therefore costly. You are quite right that it is a matter of wanting to do it, as they are expert of doing it for "very very important people". I guess that AF decided that they that Ulti are not a top priority (only VIPs, not VVIPs) and leave it to the discretion of the station manager.
Dec 26, 2017, 12:36 pm
#982
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,939
The expectation of a systematic escort service might be unreasonable.
At airports where the law of large numbers applies, that service could be provided as a couple of additional AF staff might be kept reasonably busy throughout and devote their spare time to other tasks. But what about outstations where there is one longhaul flight a day and few Ulti showing up daily, if any? Some days are very light and they might devote a staff to a departing Y/J ulti showing up at some unexpected time (could be very early before the flight or just a few minutes after). On a heavy day, with full load, and many problems (transfer pax arriving late, opups, etc..), it is hard to envision blocking a very-busy staff just for Ulti. Flight arrival time is better known, but there could be a lot of work to make transfer pax get to their flights (or possibly taking care of rerouting). There might also be a lot of work to do on the turn-around flight leaving a couple of hours later. One staff could call sick, one flight could have a lot of problems requiring everyone assistance with lots of rebooking, finding hotels, etc... .Again, that is quite unpredictable from day to day.
Another question is whether private attention/escort should be assigned to a Y Ulti or a P pax.
AF might have induced unreasonable expectations among Ulti, and that was wrong. But it seems that they now suggest that escort is not automatic. Even having a list of airports where it is guaranteed seems to me unfeasible for operational reasons and would lead to severe disappointment.
I remember many years ago when I was flying AF P and treated as VIP. I had escort many times (most others P pax did not), but far from always. Sad but understandable.
At airports where the law of large numbers applies, that service could be provided as a couple of additional AF staff might be kept reasonably busy throughout and devote their spare time to other tasks. But what about outstations where there is one longhaul flight a day and few Ulti showing up daily, if any? Some days are very light and they might devote a staff to a departing Y/J ulti showing up at some unexpected time (could be very early before the flight or just a few minutes after). On a heavy day, with full load, and many problems (transfer pax arriving late, opups, etc..), it is hard to envision blocking a very-busy staff just for Ulti. Flight arrival time is better known, but there could be a lot of work to make transfer pax get to their flights (or possibly taking care of rerouting). There might also be a lot of work to do on the turn-around flight leaving a couple of hours later. One staff could call sick, one flight could have a lot of problems requiring everyone assistance with lots of rebooking, finding hotels, etc... .Again, that is quite unpredictable from day to day.
Another question is whether private attention/escort should be assigned to a Y Ulti or a P pax.
AF might have induced unreasonable expectations among Ulti, and that was wrong. But it seems that they now suggest that escort is not automatic. Even having a list of airports where it is guaranteed seems to me unfeasible for operational reasons and would lead to severe disappointment.
I remember many years ago when I was flying AF P and treated as VIP. I had escort many times (most others P pax did not), but far from always. Sad but understandable.
Hi brunos,
I am sorry to disagree with you on this. AF knows perfectly how to treat their VIP customers. They do it several times a day at CDG, would it be for politicians, journalists, bloggers or former members of their board (that list is far from being complete). So the law of large numbers does not apply given (i) the current volume of daily VIP and (ii) the low number of Ultimate pax.
Recent example: SQ and Airbus just had a ceremony in TLS for the launch of the new A380 cabins. Famous blogger Sam Chui flew AF J from DXB to CDG to TLS to cover the event. He is FB Silver as per his boarding pass pictured in his videos. He got at least, as reported on his Instagram: personal escort at CDG straight from the door of the 77W to the reserved space in the 2F lounge as well as warm and personalised welcome from the crew on the domestic flight. Not so far from if not exactly what any Ultimate customer is supposed to receive. I am very glad for him (he seems to be a very nice guy) but feel very sorry for the poor Ultiimates in question.
Same applies for outstations. Believe me, when it comes to welcome or pamper whatever delegation, the station manager is here, even if the delegation in question is made of one person. Just like the Préfet is waiting with his white light shirt on the apron for any official to deplane at PTP, FDF or RUN airports. AF still has a very bureaucratic and diligent approach inherited from the years as state-owned company with those memos coming from the CEO's office. That is actually a very strong asset they have here. It seems though they did not decide to use it with their Ultimate customers.
I am sorry to disagree with you on this. AF knows perfectly how to treat their VIP customers. They do it several times a day at CDG, would it be for politicians, journalists, bloggers or former members of their board (that list is far from being complete). So the law of large numbers does not apply given (i) the current volume of daily VIP and (ii) the low number of Ultimate pax.
Recent example: SQ and Airbus just had a ceremony in TLS for the launch of the new A380 cabins. Famous blogger Sam Chui flew AF J from DXB to CDG to TLS to cover the event. He is FB Silver as per his boarding pass pictured in his videos. He got at least, as reported on his Instagram: personal escort at CDG straight from the door of the 77W to the reserved space in the 2F lounge as well as warm and personalised welcome from the crew on the domestic flight. Not so far from if not exactly what any Ultimate customer is supposed to receive. I am very glad for him (he seems to be a very nice guy) but feel very sorry for the poor Ultiimates in question.
Same applies for outstations. Believe me, when it comes to welcome or pamper whatever delegation, the station manager is here, even if the delegation in question is made of one person. Just like the Préfet is waiting with his white light shirt on the apron for any official to deplane at PTP, FDF or RUN airports. AF still has a very bureaucratic and diligent approach inherited from the years as state-owned company with those memos coming from the CEO's office. That is actually a very strong asset they have here. It seems though they did not decide to use it with their Ultimate customers.
I certainly agree with you on this, bodory. AF is notorious for its know-how to handle VIPs. In fact, I personally know a staff member on the ground at CDG, who is in charge of the important clients of the airline -- those who AFKL cannot afford to piss off with services not delivered. For such clients, often big Pooh-bahs and captains of industry, the airline spares no expense. Here, no lame excuses of an understaffed personnel to justify the absence of an escort. Double standards as always, which could be the motto of AFKL. brunos is absolutely right in his assessment that the airline (specifically AF) has written with the Ultimate program a check that it cannot cash with its butt. Through glitz and glam it has induced unreasonable expectations. Promises, of course, only bind those who believe in them, and perhaps have we been overly naive to take for granted what we read or heard. I have already stated my case, and insofar as I am concerned, the only worthwhile and consistent service is the TA (and the escort at ORD for outbound flights only). The rest is just too much of a hit or miss to really count on it. Perhaps will 2018 see, indeed, noteworthy improvements in the program, with more consistency in the service offered and kickass perks. Let's be optimistic here -- after all, isn't the holiday season the time for miracles?
I take your point.
As I said, I believe that it is much easier to do it routinely at CDG where there have plenty of personnel and a significant daily number of Ulti and P pax.
It is more difficult at longhaul outstations where they have only one flight per day.
I have no doubt that they would manage the staff and expense if they wanted to, as they do, once in a while, for "exceptional" people. But remember that the Ulti escort service is more than simply being greeted by the station manager, and therefore costly. You are quite right that it is a matter of wanting to do it, as they are expert of doing it for "very very important people". I guess that AF decided that they that Ulti are not a top priority (only VIPs, not VVIPs) and leave it to the discretion of the station manager.
As I said, I believe that it is much easier to do it routinely at CDG where there have plenty of personnel and a significant daily number of Ulti and P pax.
It is more difficult at longhaul outstations where they have only one flight per day.
I have no doubt that they would manage the staff and expense if they wanted to, as they do, once in a while, for "exceptional" people. But remember that the Ulti escort service is more than simply being greeted by the station manager, and therefore costly. You are quite right that it is a matter of wanting to do it, as they are expert of doing it for "very very important people". I guess that AF decided that they that Ulti are not a top priority (only VIPs, not VVIPs) and leave it to the discretion of the station manager.
At the opposite, on the dark side of the Ultimate force : JFK T1. Largest AF station long-haul, with a lot of P traffic. Plenty of AF staff, no contractors. Zero escort service despite being very early at the counter and staff not busy yet. Only rude answers "escort is only for P pax. We have no-one available. We don't do that", etc etc. At the lounge, service minimum as we say in French. Lounge dragon are not even ready to just tell you when the shower is available. Pathetic
Another example of "bad" experiences (in the sense of flat electroencephalogram 
) : SCL (AF staff, no contractors).So it is only a question of goodwill. If they want to do it, they can do it even with the current staff. And when they do it right, when they want to go the extra mile, it's just superb and very addictive
.
Dec 26, 2017, 1:01 pm
#983
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,939
I usually get Y2C medium haul op-ups 3/4 times per year, and I'm 'just' Plat.
Can you approximately quantify the 'upgrade rates'?
If you're ultimate, you're likely to fly C/J quite often, so the likelyhood of being potentially upgraded is not so common (or do you fly a lot of routes with P?)
Can you approximately quantify the 'upgrade rates'?
If you're ultimate, you're likely to fly C/J quite often, so the likelyhood of being potentially upgraded is not so common (or do you fly a lot of routes with P?)
In 2016, when I was "just" PFL, I think I got 2 op-up Y to J medium haul and nothing long-haul. In 2015, IIRC, nothing. So, as you can see, my upgrade rate has nothing out of ordinary and I am not sure the 2017 figures are statistically significant.
.
Last edited by Goldorak; Dec 26, 2017 at 1:20 pm
Dec 26, 2017, 1:34 pm
#984
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
And btw: no Santa on my flight (on the 25th) - but that is difficult as my company policy is C/F. Still, a lucky flight as I eventually got a missing KLM house that now gives me a real complete set - next to the other doubles and triples.
Have a good 2018!
Dec 26, 2017, 5:29 pm
#985
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
I could not agree more with the conclusions of travelbits and Goldorak. First, the best and consistent Ultimate service is, indeed, at outstations that (as sad as it sounds) are not operated by a full-fledged AFKL staff, but by a third-party company. I must, however, respond to Goldorak's comment on SCL. I was in Santiago less than two weeks ago, and had a very nice, albeit ineffective escort service from check-in to boarding (I was late and did not use the DL-operated lounge). The only hiccup is that we took the VIP line next to the packed LATAM business-class area upstairs, where line-cutting is frowned upon, and, thus, had to wait patiently for over half an hour to reach immigration and security check. Under these premises, having an AFKL escort was nearly superfluous, as it did not save any time, but made boarding somewhat more pleasant (through pre-boarding). Interestingly enough, and quite telling about SCL, on that particular day, the (infamous) AF supervisor (whose name should not be spoken 
) was off. He is the fly in the ointment, and the very antithesis of what Goldorak refers quite appropriately to goodwill. He embodies a problem systemic to the airline, namely the unwillingness to comply with the guidelines instilled by the higher management, yet without any consequence, any retribution from above 
. Like a (fortunately limited) number of other AFKL staff, he is the broken cog that hinders the motion of the entire machinery. While most pursers (primarily on AF metal flights) have garnered praise for going the extra mile for Ultimate PAXs, a few obstinately refuse to follow the directives of the airline and will not lift a finger to make our journey more enjoyable. What is true in the air evidently holds on the ground, and it was clear from the outset how things would unfold in light of the comments from our escorts at the dawn of the program. Accompanying us was an extra burden on their shoulders, and the odds are that someone influential (perhaps a unionist) amid the staff made it clear that escorting Ultimate PAXs was not part of their job description . And our scathing messages to the FB management will not change anything, as everyone there is probably stepping on eggshells when it comes to adding new duties on the plate of the airline staff. So, Goldorak, I am afraid, you are absolutely right. Successful delivery of the Ultimate service rests in large measure on the goodwill of the AFKL personnel, who still has the freedom to ignore us completely 
. As long as the worm remains in the apple and the individual's interest prevails over that of the airline, I see no significant improvement in any foreseeable future.
Macaron54
) was off. He is the fly in the ointment, and the very antithesis of what Goldorak refers quite appropriately to goodwill. He embodies a problem systemic to the airline, namely the unwillingness to comply with the guidelines instilled by the higher management, yet without any consequence, any retribution from above . Like a (fortunately limited) number of other AFKL staff, he is the broken cog that hinders the motion of the entire machinery. While most pursers (primarily on AF metal flights) have garnered praise for going the extra mile for Ultimate PAXs, a few obstinately refuse to follow the directives of the airline and will not lift a finger to make our journey more enjoyable. What is true in the air evidently holds on the ground, and it was clear from the outset how things would unfold in light of the comments from our escorts at the dawn of the program. Accompanying us was an extra burden on their shoulders, and the odds are that someone influential (perhaps a unionist) amid the staff made it clear that escorting Ultimate PAXs was not part of their job description . And our scathing messages to the FB management will not change anything, as everyone there is probably stepping on eggshells when it comes to adding new duties on the plate of the airline staff. So, Goldorak, I am afraid, you are absolutely right. Successful delivery of the Ultimate service rests in large measure on the goodwill of the AFKL personnel, who still has the freedom to ignore us completely . As long as the worm remains in the apple and the individual's interest prevails over that of the airline, I see no significant improvement in any foreseeable future.Macaron54
Dec 26, 2017, 9:35 pm
#986
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
In reaction to Goldorak's opup experience, let me share mine with CX. I am BA OWE. I know that I would get better treatment if I were CX DM. I don't fly as much as Goldorak (by far), but I know that CX keeps tab of my CX flights, even though I am not a member of their FFP. I often get opup from Y to J on regional flights (that is because their Y is often full and they have a fixed number of J seats, not the movable curtain). That is great. Last year, I was flying paid F to CDG with my wife (also OWE) in award J. Without asking they upgraded her to F although there were empty seats in J.
Last edited by brunos; Dec 26, 2017 at 9:45 pm
Dec 26, 2017, 10:11 pm
#987
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
In reaction to Goldorak's opup experience, let me share mine with CX. I am BA OWE. I know that I would get better treatment if I were CX DM. I don't fly as much as Goldorak (by far), but I know that CX keeps tab of my CX flights, even though I am not a member of their FFP. I often get opup from Y to J on regional flights (that is because their Y is often full and they have a fixed number of J seats, not the movable curtain). That is great. Last year, I was flying paid F to CDG with my wife (also OWE) in award J. Without asking they upgraded her to F although there were empty seats in J.
Dec 27, 2017, 3:31 am
#988
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Switzerland
Programs: AFKL Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador Elite
Posts: 369
In 2017, I flew about 100 Skyteam flights, not time to calculate how many AF, but likely 75-80% of them. On medium-haul, I fly Y as per company policy, so there is a potential for upgrade here. I flew a couple of medium haul booked in J but it was because I was connecting to long-haul in J or P. On long-haul, I flew the immense majority of the flights in J. Not all routes I have flown in J have P, but as I said they had a couple of opportunities to upgrade me in P, would they have wished.
In 2016, when I was "just" PFL, I think I got 2 op-up Y to J medium haul and nothing long-haul. In 2015, IIRC, nothing. So, as you can see, my upgrade rate has nothing out of ordinary and I am not sure the 2017 figures are statistically significant.
No. When I said above they had opportunities to upgrade me to P, would they have wished to do so, it's because I know there were some possibilities. And I told AF they lack imagination sometimes for top customer handling and their staff lacks sometimes empowerment. I was once in an A380 to IAD in paid J. The flight was delayed by 5 hrs. Don't you think they could attenuate easily the inconvenience for their top pax by upgrading him/her in that kind of circumstances (there was IIRC 3 for 4 free seats in P) ? Another case to HKG (paid J. W and J cabins 100% full and likely overbooked and there was one seat left in P). Another example on an ATH-CDG in Y, flight delayed by 3 hrs and one seat left in J : despite a long flight (3 hrs) and a heavy delay (3 hrs), not a word from the chief purser, no special greeting, no special treatment, no glass of champagne, nothing, while they could have had me forgiving everything with an op-up to J. This would have cost them nothing as I am sure they had an extra tray on-board. But this is where you see the differences between good and bad staff. And in those cases, I cannot even blame family and friends to have taken the seats in the upper class : they were free.
In 2016, when I was "just" PFL, I think I got 2 op-up Y to J medium haul and nothing long-haul. In 2015, IIRC, nothing. So, as you can see, my upgrade rate has nothing out of ordinary and I am not sure the 2017 figures are statistically significant.
No. When I said above they had opportunities to upgrade me to P, would they have wished to do so, it's because I know there were some possibilities. And I told AF they lack imagination sometimes for top customer handling and their staff lacks sometimes empowerment. I was once in an A380 to IAD in paid J. The flight was delayed by 5 hrs. Don't you think they could attenuate easily the inconvenience for their top pax by upgrading him/her in that kind of circumstances (there was IIRC 3 for 4 free seats in P) ? Another case to HKG (paid J. W and J cabins 100% full and likely overbooked and there was one seat left in P). Another example on an ATH-CDG in Y, flight delayed by 3 hrs and one seat left in J : despite a long flight (3 hrs) and a heavy delay (3 hrs), not a word from the chief purser, no special greeting, no special treatment, no glass of champagne, nothing, while they could have had me forgiving everything with an op-up to J. This would have cost them nothing as I am sure they had an extra tray on-board. But this is where you see the differences between good and bad staff. And in those cases, I cannot even blame family and friends to have taken the seats in the upper class : they were free
.I must say that the reason why I became loyal with AFKL was the rate of upgrades I've got in the early days of Elite status. On the first year (when I was Silver), I've got a Y to W upgrade with AF from NRT to CDG, and in the second year (gold then plat) I've got 3 Y to J upgrades with KL (all in case of overbooking though). It's clear that I was just extremely lucky. The thing that really impressed me with KL (less frequently with AF, with the exception of a flight in P and on an inaugural flight) was often the recognition when you fly J from the purser.
I have the opportunity in 2018 to fly a lot on short haul J, and given the value of XPs, I can easily qualify in two years as a Ultimate.
However, I'm not sure if this is worth, compared to the potential of getting a second middle-tier status with another airline of another alliance (often my colleagues fly Swiss/LH, but I had horrible past experiences with LH...)
Dec 31, 2017, 2:36 am
#989
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 15
Qualification
Hello- I am a frequent reader but rarely post.
very interesting thread!
When calculating the 360,000 status miles needed to reach Ultimate, does AF/KL Include the 70000 miles per year that are subtracted to maintain Platinum status?
Thanks
very interesting thread!
When calculating the 360,000 status miles needed to reach Ultimate, does AF/KL Include the 70000 miles per year that are subtracted to maintain Platinum status?
Thanks