May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Jan 3, 2024, 2:58 am
#6721
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,051
The treatment could be difficult to swallow but again, it was largely communicated.
Jan 3, 2024, 3:04 am
#6722
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
Maybe they used the time to filter out what their decision really means to those most loyal/paying customers
Jan 3, 2024, 3:35 am
#6723
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Marseille, France
Programs: AF Plat Ultimate, BA GGL, MS Elite
Posts: 475
It won't make a dent in AF's bottom line but loyalty is a two way street. If one day AF really cares on providing real tangible perks I will be happy to make a come back until then when I see the service provided with QR, status is irrelevant.
The GGL team is top notch, I have real benefits.
The 3 months gone because AF changed the rule and I have to suck it up, it's a commercial disgrace to treat your premium clients this way, fair enough, I'm satisfied to fly with real premium airlines.
Yet I have 3 LP trips coming up and 4 LC in J and don't plan on adding another one soon.
Jan 3, 2024, 3:51 am
#6724
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,040
Why can't they wait for your end of qualification period to start the new qualification system.
If not, that would mean that because I requalified in 2022, I'm just losing 900 Uxp "for free" while some other pax are not concerned because their qualification period is end of 2023... how fair is that ?
I would definitely have changed my bookings if I knew about it and I will definitely will if it remains like that.
I'm fine with changes but Ulti is not a gift given to us by AF, it comes with how much you spend
We're talking about 900 Uxp so approximately 70/80 k€
How come can we, as loyal clients, accept that ?
I would do that to my clients, my company would be already closing down
Ben Lipsey , your feedback on this specific situation would be greatly appreciated
Jan 3, 2024, 5:05 am
#6725
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NCE
Programs: FB Ultimate - BA EC - LH M&M - Accor All Gold
Posts: 267
But I agree FB should have put in place a transition period on everyone's end of qualification date, like they're supposed to do for XP rollover and PFL as of November 2024.
Jan 3, 2024, 8:27 am
#6726
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: BRE
Programs: Flying Blue Ultimate, LATAM Black, Vistara Gold, Accor/IHG Platinum, Marriott/Hilton Gold
Posts: 480
I didn't pay a lot of attention to the transition before because I just looked at the 2025 case, which was the personal case. Reading the FB FAQ now, it says:
The only conceivable way your qualification period ends on December 31, 2024 is if you were on the two year plan (unless it got shortened to that due to the change). This means that you likely qualified as Ulti in 2022 when 1800 UXP were already deducted from your account. Then during 2023 and 2024, as is the case for matmatlr you earned UXP, because you were supposed to have 2 years until December 31, 2024 to get to 1800 UXP. If 900 UXP (or lower balance) gets deducted on December 31, 2023 towards the 2024 membership year than you are effectively paying the original 1800 UXP and an additional 900 UXP to remain Ulti in 2024. With this method, FB has not only preponed the qualification date but by not crediting 900 UXP back, they have seemingly stolen a full year too.
Instead, adding 900 UXP back to the counter before deducting it again (essentially a null effect, like for those who have next qualification in 2025) so that the second year of Ulti continues undisturbed might have been fairer from the Ulti perspective. Then when December 31, 2024 comes around for these folks 900 UXP would be deducted for qualification towards 2025, any extra balance above 900 UXP would be rolled over with a max of 900 UXP, for qualification towards 2026. This is pretty much what has been done for those who had qualifications periods ending in December 2023 or in 2025. They preponed the qualification date, but also re-credited the 900 UXP for the period that was removed from our status validity.
As a concrete example of matmatlr (and assuming 1200 UXP annual earn); under old program:
It is probably unlikely FB will change this at this point, but using an approach for older Ultis to give them a transition seems like it would've been better. I realize that rolling over a capped 900 UXP is a new thing rather than zeroing out the UXP counter, but the second approach even respects that while keeping everyone's status unchanged without seemingly penalizing them for earlier qualification.
What this approach has done in effect is that anyone who needed to qualify in 2024, they got moved into an annual 900 UXP plan with a rollover cap of 900 UXP applying immediately rather than benefiting from having two years to earn 900 UXP. From FB's perspective, this is probably why they did it this way since the new rules apply from the beginning of 2024 already. Even extrapolating the examples above towards 2027 you'll notice that the rollover cap basically regularizes everything. They probably also wanted to shrink the pool from the double UXP earners of Covid times as fast as possible.
Not the most fair approach, and I can see how some people are going to get caught out with it, but I do see FB's perspective on why it has been done this way. A transition, something that was done for Plats' 300 XP rollover cap, would've been much fairer though. Something for Ben Lipsey to ruminate over considering that Ultis who've been there longer are the ones being hurt here.
I am currently a Flying Blue Ultimate member, and my qualification period ends before December 2024; what will be the impact for me as of January 1, 2024?
900 UXP will be deducted from your UXP counter on January 1, 2024, which is the new required annual threshold. For you, this means:
900 UXP will be deducted from your UXP counter on January 1, 2024, which is the new required annual threshold. For you, this means:
- If you have more than 900 UXP in your counter on December 31, 2023, you will start the year with UXP remaining in your counter, which will help you reach the 900 UXP needed before the end of your next qualification period.
- If you have fewer than 900 UXP in your counter on December 31, 2023, your counter will reset at 0 UXP, and you will need to earn 900 UXP by the end of your qualification period.
Instead, adding 900 UXP back to the counter before deducting it again (essentially a null effect, like for those who have next qualification in 2025) so that the second year of Ulti continues undisturbed might have been fairer from the Ulti perspective. Then when December 31, 2024 comes around for these folks 900 UXP would be deducted for qualification towards 2025, any extra balance above 900 UXP would be rolled over with a max of 900 UXP, for qualification towards 2026. This is pretty much what has been done for those who had qualifications periods ending in December 2023 or in 2025. They preponed the qualification date, but also re-credited the 900 UXP for the period that was removed from our status validity.
As a concrete example of matmatlr (and assuming 1200 UXP annual earn); under old program:
- December 31st, 2022 - 1800 UXP taken - status valid until December 31st, 2024
- December 31st 2023 - 900 UXP taken - 379 UXP left in balance. No change to status date.
- Assumed 1200 UXP earned in 2024. In effect, 1579 UXP available towards status in 2025.
- December 31st, 2024 - 900 UXP taken - 679 UXP rolled over towards status in 2026.
- December 31st, 2025 - 900 UXP taken - 900 UXP rolled over towards status in 2027.
- December 31st, 2022 - 1800 UXP taken - status valid until December 31st, 2024
- December 31st, 2023 - 900 UXP added and taken - 1279 UXP left in balance. No change to status date.
- Assumed 1200 UXP earned in 2024. In effect, 2479 UXP available towards status in 2025.
- December 31st, 2024 - 900 UXP taken - 900 UXP rolled over towards status in 2026.
- December 31st, 2024 - 900 UXP taken - 900 UXP rolled over towards status in 2027.
It is probably unlikely FB will change this at this point, but using an approach for older Ultis to give them a transition seems like it would've been better. I realize that rolling over a capped 900 UXP is a new thing rather than zeroing out the UXP counter, but the second approach even respects that while keeping everyone's status unchanged without seemingly penalizing them for earlier qualification.
What this approach has done in effect is that anyone who needed to qualify in 2024, they got moved into an annual 900 UXP plan with a rollover cap of 900 UXP applying immediately rather than benefiting from having two years to earn 900 UXP. From FB's perspective, this is probably why they did it this way since the new rules apply from the beginning of 2024 already. Even extrapolating the examples above towards 2027 you'll notice that the rollover cap basically regularizes everything. They probably also wanted to shrink the pool from the double UXP earners of Covid times as fast as possible.
Not the most fair approach, and I can see how some people are going to get caught out with it, but I do see FB's perspective on why it has been done this way. A transition, something that was done for Plats' 300 XP rollover cap, would've been much fairer though. Something for Ben Lipsey to ruminate over considering that Ultis who've been there longer are the ones being hurt here.
Jan 3, 2024, 8:40 am
#6727
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,040
Perfectly well described and it's exactly the situation I am in
Very unfair and absolutely not customer oriented
It would have had 0 consequence for AF to wait the end of the qualification period to move me to the new system
And that's clearly a "breach of contract" as the rules were clear when I qualified that I would get 2 years Ulti tier
in reality these 2 years became 1 year
And I'm not even talking about the extra Uxp that never got rolledover
Very unfair and absolutely not customer oriented
It would have had 0 consequence for AF to wait the end of the qualification period to move me to the new system
And that's clearly a "breach of contract" as the rules were clear when I qualified that I would get 2 years Ulti tier
in reality these 2 years became 1 year
And I'm not even talking about the extra Uxp that never got rolledover
Jan 3, 2024, 11:53 am
#6728
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 26
Another example for further information.
Could anybody interpret this for me please?
Qualified for Ultimate during December 2021 so had two years of Ultimate 2022 and 2023 (Period Ended December 2023)
Between January 2022 and December 2023 gained 1895 UXP so I thought I had two more years of Ultimate 2024 and 2025 - period ending December 2025.
This is what it says on my account in the last few days.
Have I qualified for one year 2024 or two years 2024-2025?
Seems a misleading and very poor implementation to me at first glance.
Could anybody interpret this for me please?
Qualified for Ultimate during December 2021 so had two years of Ultimate 2022 and 2023 (Period Ended December 2023)
Between January 2022 and December 2023 gained 1895 UXP so I thought I had two more years of Ultimate 2024 and 2025 - period ending December 2025.
This is what it says on my account in the last few days.
Have I qualified for one year 2024 or two years 2024-2025?
Seems a misleading and very poor implementation to me at first glance.
Jan 3, 2024, 12:41 pm
#6729
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NCE
Programs: FB Ultimate - BA EC - LH M&M - Accor All Gold
Posts: 267
Another example for further information.
Could anybody interpret this for me please?
Qualified for Ultimate during December 2021 so had two years of Ultimate 2022 and 2023 (Period Ended December 2023)
Between January 2022 and December 2023 gained 1895 UXP so I thought I had two more years of Ultimate 2024 and 2025 - period ending December 2025.
This is what it says on my account in the last few days.
Have I qualified for one year 2024 or two years 2024-2025?
Seems a misleading and very poor implementation to me at first glance.
Could anybody interpret this for me please?
Qualified for Ultimate during December 2021 so had two years of Ultimate 2022 and 2023 (Period Ended December 2023)
Between January 2022 and December 2023 gained 1895 UXP so I thought I had two more years of Ultimate 2024 and 2025 - period ending December 2025.
This is what it says on my account in the last few days.
Have I qualified for one year 2024 or two years 2024-2025?
Seems a misleading and very poor implementation to me at first glance.
You didn't show your Ulti qualification date but it should be 31/12/2024.
Any additional UXP you earn in 2024 will rollover to 2025 (max 900).
Jan 3, 2024, 12:46 pm
#6730
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 26
Thank you very much for clarifying that for me.
You have stated that very clearly.
The Ulti Qualification date on my account does state 31/12/2024 as you say.
I now understand the implementation.
Thanks again.
Jan 4, 2024, 5:05 am
#6731
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: The Netherlands
Programs: FB Ultimate and PFL & ALL Accor Diamond
Posts: 477
I am sorry but I have to disagree on this one
Why can't they wait for your end of qualification period to start the new qualification system.
If not, that would mean that because I requalified in 2022, I'm just losing 900 Uxp "for free" while some other pax are not concerned because their qualification period is end of 2023... how fair is that ?
I would definitely have changed my bookings if I knew about it and I will definitely will if it remains like that.
I'm fine with changes but Ulti is not a gift given to us by AF, it comes with how much you spend
We're talking about 900 Uxp so approximately 70/80 k€
How come can we, as loyal clients, accept that ?
I would do that to my clients, my company would be already closing down
Ben Lipsey , your feedback on this specific situation would be greatly appreciated
Why can't they wait for your end of qualification period to start the new qualification system.
If not, that would mean that because I requalified in 2022, I'm just losing 900 Uxp "for free" while some other pax are not concerned because their qualification period is end of 2023... how fair is that ?
I would definitely have changed my bookings if I knew about it and I will definitely will if it remains like that.
I'm fine with changes but Ulti is not a gift given to us by AF, it comes with how much you spend
We're talking about 900 Uxp so approximately 70/80 k€
How come can we, as loyal clients, accept that ?
I would do that to my clients, my company would be already closing down
Ben Lipsey , your feedback on this specific situation would be greatly appreciated
On the acceptance; you see a couple of Ulti’s (incl me) taking revenue elsewhere… that’s all we can do.
Jan 4, 2024, 5:19 am
#6732
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
Whereas the 3 months shortening of the ULTI period is basically taking away ULTI benefits that are anyhow limited (as in 'not delivered'), the 900 UXP = 1 year reduction actually means that the only hard benefit (the upgrades) for one year (in the end, eventually) will not be given.
Somehow I have the feeling we always pick the short straw... how could that be?
Anyway, AF/KL lost in the last 3 years about 600k on revenue on me & my companies and I enjoy empty seats next to me, metal cutlery and warm (real) meals at cheaper prices - win-win, no?
Somehow I have the feeling we always pick the short straw... how could that be?
Anyway, AF/KL lost in the last 3 years about 600k on revenue on me & my companies and I enjoy empty seats next to me, metal cutlery and warm (real) meals at cheaper prices - win-win, no?
Jan 4, 2024, 5:21 am
#6733
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: ZRH / SIN
Programs: FB Ulti, QR-Gold (OWS), TK *Gold, Bonvoy Ambassadort Elite, GHA Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 531
As a concrete example of matmatlr (and assuming 1200 UXP annual earn); under old program:
- December 31st, 2022 - 1800 UXP taken - status valid until December 31st, 2024
- December 31st 2023 - 900 UXP taken - 379 UXP left in balance. No change to status date.
- Assumed 1200 UXP earned in 2024. In effect, 1579 UXP available towards status in 2025.
- December 31st, 2024 - 900 UXP taken - 679 UXP rolled over towards status in 2026.
- December 31st, 2025 - 900 UXP taken - 900 UXP rolled over towards status in 2027.
- December 31st, 2022 - 1800 UXP taken - status valid until December 31st, 2024
- December 31st, 2023 - 900 UXP added and taken - 1279 UXP left in balance. No change to status date.
- Assumed 1200 UXP earned in 2024. In effect, 2479 UXP available towards status in 2025.
- December 31st, 2024 - 900 UXP taken - 900 UXP rolled over towards status in 2026.
- December 31st, 2024 - 900 UXP taken - 900 UXP rolled over towards status in 2027.
Qualification period is until 31.12.2024. So,
December 31st, 2022 - 1800 UXP taken - 0 rollover - status valid until December 31st, 2024
December 31st, 2023 - 1279 UXP in balance, nothing happens as it is the middle of the qualification period
Assumed 1200 UXP earned in 2024. At the end of 2024, 1800 UXP are taken for renewal and all the excess UXP are lost - 0 UXP available towards status in 2025.
From what I understand, matmatlr wants to already benefit from the rollover UXP for UXP which he earned before the rollover UXP were introduced. As per the old rules, he would start with 0 UXP in 2025, with the new rules, he benefits from rollover UXP earned during the last 2 years (379 UXP in the example above for 2023 and 300 UXP in 2024, so total 679 UXP).
Jan 4, 2024, 5:27 am
#6734
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
Under the old rules we earned 1800 in the years 2022&2023 and were ULTI for 2024 and 2025 even if we earned nothing in those 2 years (24&25)
By the new rules if we earn nothing in the years 2024 & 2025, in the year 2025 we will not have ULTI benefits anymore (even if we carry over 900 UXP from 2023 into 2024). Whereas immanently this does not play, but it will play eventually at the moment one (individually) falls out of the ULTI program.
By the new rules if we earn nothing in the years 2024 & 2025, in the year 2025 we will not have ULTI benefits anymore (even if we carry over 900 UXP from 2023 into 2024). Whereas immanently this does not play, but it will play eventually at the moment one (individually) falls out of the ULTI program.
Jan 4, 2024, 5:28 am
#6735
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Paris and around the WW
Programs: AF/KLM Club2000 Ultimate / M&M HON Circle / ALL Diamond / Hertz President Circle
Posts: 1,040
Whereas the 3 months shortening of the ULTI period is basically taking away ULTI benefits that are anyhow limited (as in 'not delivered'), the 900 UXP = 1 year reduction actually means that the only hard benefit (the upgrades) for one year (in the end, eventually) will not be given.
Somehow I have the feeling we always pick the short straw... how could that be?
Anyway, AF/KL lost in the last 3 years about 600k on revenue on me & my companies and I enjoy empty seats next to me, metal cutlery and warm (real) meals at cheaper prices - win-win, no?
Somehow I have the feeling we always pick the short straw... how could that be?
Anyway, AF/KL lost in the last 3 years about 600k on revenue on me & my companies and I enjoy empty seats next to me, metal cutlery and warm (real) meals at cheaper prices - win-win, no?
I hope they'll realise that doing so is a non sense and unfair to some of their most loyal clients; considering the volume of P/J flights these last years and my fidelity during Covid, I hope they'll find a way
If not, I'll push to extend HON and move my company trips to alternative airlines