May 9, 2019, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: Goldorak
FLYING BLUE ULTIMATE
Main facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
Paris ORY
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- AJA: no special treatment to reportMain facts
Ultimate is the top status in FB. It may be added to Club 2000 – Skipper status.
While other FB status (Silver/Gold/Platinum) are based on experience points earning (XP), Ultimate status is obtained by Ultimate XP (UXP) earning. UXPs are earned exclusively on AF- and KL-coded (= marketed) flights, whatever the operating airline.
Some examples :
- CDG-JFK AF-marketing, AF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-JFK DL-marketing, AF-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
- AMS-BOS KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- BOS-IND KL-marketing, DL-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- SIN-SYD AF-marketing, QF-operating : eligible to UXP earning
- CDG-FCO AZ-marketing, AZ-operating : NON-eligible to UXP earning
XP earned via AFKL Amex cards are not eligible (those are XP and not UXP).
To qualify for Ultimate, it is needed to have 900 UXP over a year. It is similar to the normal XP counter, resetting as soon as the tier is reached. Ultimate is valid for 1 year once granted. Note 03/2023 : the qualification system just changed from 1800 UXP over 2 years to 900 UXP/1 year. Some transitional measures are in place for the current Ultimate members. See here for details about handling of transition period :
https://www.flyingblue.com/fr/landin...m_content=main
Since 03/2023, a rollover of surplus UXP (over 900) is now possible to the next year and only to the next year (example : year 1, the member earns 2000UXP. At the end of year 1, only 900 UXP will be rolled-over to year 2 and the remaining 1100 UXP earned in Y1 will be lost and not be transferred to year 3. If during year 2, the member earned 1000 new (fresh) UXP, 100 will be rolled-over to year 3.
Hard benefits
- All FB Platinum/Club 2000-Skipper benefits
- Access to a Travel Assistant service 24/7. They are reachable by phone or by email. In practice, from 8 pm to 8 am CET, calls are taken by the Platinum line.
- highest priority on waiting list and in case of irrops
- Possibility to register up to 8 persons who can benefit from Sky Priority services and lounge access when traveling with the Ultimate member and on same PNR (lounge access is only in AFKL lounges here).
- one companion Platinum card
- when the Ultimate member is flying P, 2 guests are allowed in CDG P lounge.
- Zone 1 boarding, irrespective of travel class.
- Access to Hertz Platinum status
- four one-class upgrade certificates per membership year, requiring 1 from W to J, or 2 from Y to J. Upgrades are confirmed instantly at the time of booking (via the Travel Assistant). One voucher = one way. Vouchers can also be used by one of the 8 registered friend/family members travelling by themselves. In case of a long-haul flight with a medium-haul connection/feeder (e.g. CDG-AMS-JFK), the medium-haul segment will be upgraded also with still only one voucher used. In case of 2 long-haul flights in connection (e,g. DXB-CDG-JFK), the use of 2 vouchers is required to upgrade the 2 segments. Upgrade vouchers are usable only on AF- or KL-marketing and operating flights and the PNR must contains only the AFKL flights to be upgraded (if the PNR contains other non-AFKL flights, you cannot upgrade even just the AFKL flights).
The upgrade coupons are valid as soon as you reach Ultimate and is valid for 12 months. The vouchers need to be used within the membership year, but can be applied for travel post expiry date.
Rules for eligible booking classes for the upgrade vouchers are described below :
AF flights, long-haul
Premium Eco to Business
Original booking class : A, S, W
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C (it means that if the flight has only J fare available, one cannot upgrade)
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico, including LAX-PPT)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, C
KL flights, long-haul
Eco to Business (all flights, except to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N, R
Upgraded booking class : Z, I, D, C
Eco to Business (flights to/from USA, Canada, Mexico and DEL)
Original booking class : Y, B, M, U, K, H, L, Q, T, N
Upgraded booking class : Z, I.
Airline-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
- AF, KL and contract staff at airports have a popup message on their computer screen when checking-in an Ultimate pax or when scanning a BP at the lounge (AFKL lounges only) asking them to be attentive at any special request of the Ultimate pax. See also below for airport-specific soft benefits. There is no known official policy for operational upgrades of Ultimates, but Ultimate members have all reported on FT a higher rate of op-up (but those remain rare !).
- AF and KL cabin crews are instructed to provide extra care and attentions on-board. It can take different forms : special greetings, extra amenities (pillow, oshibori, etc), F&B from the upper class, upgrades on board (Y to J medium haul, W to J or Y to W long haul), earlier and quicker meal service. This is not systematic and is up to the appreciation of the crew. Based on the reports of Ultimate members of this forum, AF crews seems to be more compliant than KL crews with those directives, although there has been several reports in this thread of nice attentions provided by KL crews.- Unlimited downloads (any day) in AF PLAY app.
Other Skyteam airlines do not provide any extra service or attentions to FB Ultimate passengers.
Airport-specific soft (unpublished) benefits
All benefits below should be understood for departure, unless otherwise noted. In addition to what is mentioned below, it has been reported several cases of expedited transfers organised by AFKL staff in case of short/endangered connection at various airports.
Please complete/edit this list as needed.
AFKL HUBS
Amsterdam
- AMS : some reserved tables in the Non-Schengen lounges. Reserved area in the Schengen lounge (need to ask staff at long entrance). Pre-boarding sometimes granted at the gate.
Paris CDG
- CDG 2E:
- Departure : Escort from check-in to immigration in the morning (super fast track). Reserved space at K/L/M lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding
- Arrival : access to dedicated lane at passport control, all the way to the left, follow the "ULTIMATE" sign.
- Departure : There is a special Ultimate check-in counter in the SkyP zone (on the left of terminal). Reserved room in the lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate before beginning of general boarding. Escort is provided from the counter to security (skipping the line).
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
- Departure : Reserved space in the lounge
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
Paris ORY
- Departure : Reserved space at Schengen and non-Schengen lounges. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge.
- Arrival : no special treatment to report
EUROPE
Austria
- VIE: no special treatment to report
Croatia
- DBV: no special treatment to report
- SPU: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Czech Republic
- PRG: no special treatment to report. Pre-boarding refused.
Denmark
- CPH: no special treatment to report
France (non-hubs)
- BES: no special treatment to report
- BIQ: no special treatment to report
- BOD: pre-boarding from lounge to plane inconsistently proposed
- CDG: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- LYS: Escort from lounge to plane when flying from B gates provided upon request . Preboarding with escort to the plane consistently provided.
- MPL: pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed (AF agent comes to the contract lounge to meet the Ultimate guest)
- MRS: no special treatment to report
- NCE: Reserved area in Infinity lounge (inconsistently provided : seems to be provided only when lounge crowded). Pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane, sometimes proposed.
- NTE: no special treatment to report
- ORY: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
- PUF: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- RNS: bypass queue at security and pre-boarding provided upon request
- TLS: Escort from check in to lounge inconsistently provided. Pre-boarding consistently provided
Germany
- BER: no special treatment to report
- DUS: no special treatment to report
- FRA: no special treatment to report
- HAM: no special treatment to report
- HAJ: No special treatment to report.
- MUC: Reserved area in the lounge, escort from lounge to plane with pre-boarding proposed.
- STR: reserved area in the lounge, pre-boarding
Greece
- ATH: no special treatment to report
- HER: no special treatment to report
- JTR: no special treatment to report
Hungary
- BUD: escort through security from check-in to lounge proposed
Ireland
- DUB: no special treatment to report
Italy
- BLQ: escort from check-in to lounge, and through security to plane.
- BRI: no special treatment to report
- CTA: no special treatment to report
- FCO: no special treatment to report
- FLR: no special treatment to report
- LIN: no special treatment to report
- MXP: pre-boarding granted by request
- VCE: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane (not always consistently proposed)
- NAP: no special treatment to report
Netherlands
- AMS: see top of the list in "AFKL hubs".
Norway
- OSL: no special treatment to report
- TRF: no special treatment to report
- KRS: no special treatment to report
- SVG: no special treatment to report
Poland
- WAW: no special treatment to report
- KRK: no special treatment to report
- GDN: no special treatment to report
Portugal
- LIS: pre-boarding proposed upon request
Russia
- SVO: no special treatment to report
- LED: no special treatment to report
Spain
- AGP: no special treatment to report
- BCN: no special treatment to report
- MAD: no special treatment to report
- PMI: no special treatment to report
- SVQ: no special treatment to report
- TFS: no special treatment to report
- VLC: no special treatment to report
Sweden
- ARN: no special treatment to report
- GOT: no special treatment to report
Switzerland
- GVA: pre-boarding upon request. Reserved area in the lounge
- ZRH: no special treatment
United Kingdom
- ABZ: no special treatment to report
- EDI: no special treatment to report
- LHR: no special treatment to report
NORTH AMERICA
Canada
- YUL: Escort from check-in to lounge upon request. Reserved area in lounge, pre-boarding with escort from lounge to plane
- YYZ: escort on arrival through immigration, consistently offered. / Escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to airplane
- YQB: escort from check-in to lounge proposed
- YVR: no special treatment to report
USA
- ATL: no special treatment to report (in connection)
- BOS: escort through security from check-in to lounge, pre-boarding, all consistently provided mostly spontaneously, sometimes upon request. A separate room in the AF lounge is also proposed.
- DTW: no special treatment to report (starting from DTW or in connection)
- IAD: escort through security from check-in to lounge upon request, but inconsistently provided. Reserved area at the lounge.
- IAH: no special treatment to report
- JFK (AF only / terminal 1) : reserved table in the dining area of the lounge (upstairs),
- JFK (KL only / terminal 4) : no special treatments to report.
- LAX: no special treatment to report
- ORD: On arrival, escort through immigration (not consistently provided). On departure, escort through security to lounge and from lounge to plane (pre-boarding)
- MSP: no special treatment to report, except one case of special DL Elite VIP treatment with expedited immigration and Porsche transfer to/from lounge (not a regular benefit to expect)
- SEA: pre-boarding with escort to plane
- SFO: reserved area in lounge
Mexico
- MEX (Terminal 1): escort through security to lounge with access to dedicated space. Ride from lounge to gate. Sometimes escort on arrival
CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA
- BOG: no special treatment to report
- LIM: escort to lounge, provided spontaneously
- GIG: Pre-boarding upon request.
- GRU: escort in case of short connection upon request, inconsistently provided; as of 02/2024 pre-boarding offered at check-in and provided by gate-staff (inconsistently provided).
- SCL: as of 03/2024 escort to lounge offered at departure check-in, pick-up from lounge and pre-boarding done
- EZE: escort to lounge with special crew lane for immigration provided spontaneously
ASIA / PACIFIC
- BKK: escort through security from check-in to lounge, upon request but inconsistently proposed. In connection : escort in case of short connection (better to request it before departure).
- BLR: escort from lounge to gate, pre-boarding provided
- BOM : escort from plane to immigration, and from checkin to the lounge
- DEL: as of 01/2024 escort upon arrival; proactive pre-departure call to arrange terminal entry via VIP entrance and escort to gate for pre-boarding (if lounge used, offered to pick up for pre-boarding)
- HKG: no special treatment to report.
- HND: Arrival : new 09/2023 = escort through immigration. Departure : escort from check-in desk to private (crew) security, proposed spontaneously
- KIX: Arrival : escort through immigration, wait at baggage claim. Departure : escort from check-in desk to lounge All proposed spontaneously
- SIN: no special treatment to report
CARIBBEAN & INDIAN OCEAN
- CUR: no special treatment to report, there is no (sky)priority lane for security or immigration, but escort/short track is available for 100 $.
- HAV: at departure, escort from check in counters until security checks. Pre-boarding offered. No escort at arrival. No reserved space in Lounge.
- FDF: No reserved space in Lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the gate.
- MRU: escort on arrival through immigration. Unknown for departures (no data point)
- PTP: Reserved table in lounge. Pre-boarding upon request at the lounge with escort from lounge to plane.
- RUN: Pre-boarding proposed at check-in and in the lounge, with escort from lounge to plane. Reserved seats in lounge
- SXM: Escort for incoming transit pax (from/to AF flight) through passport controls and security, pre-boarding pro-actively offered for AF departure
MIDDLE EAST
- AUH : no special treatment to report
- BEY: no special treatment to report
- DXB: escort from check-in to lounge and from lounge to plane, all upon request, consistently provided. Access to the Ahlan lounge (normally reserved for P pax) instead of Skyteam lounge.
- JED: no special treatment to report
- RUH: no special treatment to report
- IST: no special treatment to report
AFRICA
- AGA: escort from check in to lounge and from lounge to aircraft, provided spontaneously
- CAI: no special treatment to report
- CMN: escort on arrival through immigration (not always consistently provided)
- CPT: escort from counter to lounge, provided spontaneously
- JNB: escort from counter to lounge (no fast track at immigration), provided spontaneously
- LOS: no special treatment to report
- RAK: escort on arrival, upon request (not provided on departure)
- RBA: on departure : escort to lounge and to plane, provided spontaneously.
- TUN: escort on arrival through immigration provided. Escort from check-in to lounge provided
- ZNZ: no special treatment to report (not even lounge access)
Flying Blue Platinum Ultimate Status
Sep 23, 2018, 12:13 am
#1516
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 761
Slightly off topic. Since the majority here is probably of non English or American descent, I would suggest to write in such manner that everybody understands.
It is easy to use difficult or seldom used words to make one’s post more interesting but it’s more difficult to use clear language so everybody understands.
Our company encourages to speak and write simple English so everybody understands.
After all, it’s not rocket science we are talking about😊😊
i would appreciate less unnecessary complicated sentences and unnecessary fancy words.
Thanks!
It is easy to use difficult or seldom used words to make one’s post more interesting but it’s more difficult to use clear language so everybody understands.
Our company encourages to speak and write simple English so everybody understands.
After all, it’s not rocket science we are talking about😊😊
i would appreciate less unnecessary complicated sentences and unnecessary fancy words.
Thanks!
Sep 23, 2018, 3:58 am
#1517
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
Slightly off topic. Since the majority here is probably of non English or American descent, I would suggest to write in such manner that everybody understands.
It is easy to use difficult or seldom used words to make one’s post more interesting but it’s more difficult to use clear language so everybody understands.
Our company encourages to speak and write simple English so everybody understands.
After all, it’s not rocket science we are talking about����
i would appreciate less unnecessary complicated sentences and unnecessary fancy words.
Thanks!
It is easy to use difficult or seldom used words to make one’s post more interesting but it’s more difficult to use clear language so everybody understands.
Our company encourages to speak and write simple English so everybody understands.
After all, it’s not rocket science we are talking about����
i would appreciate less unnecessary complicated sentences and unnecessary fancy words.
Thanks!
"Her English is too good", he said. That clearly indicates that she is foreign.
--- Zoltan Karpathy (My Fair Lady)
PS/ To BobTL, I am sure you will find the following illuminating: Galak, J.; Nelson, L. D. The virtues of opaque prose: How lay beliefs about fluency influence perceptions of quality. Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 2011, 47, 250–253.
Sep 23, 2018, 7:05 am
#1518
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
The Ultimate program manager appears to be a very reasonable person, open to suggestions. This is definitely one that we should bring to his attention.
Sep 23, 2018, 7:21 am
#1519
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: FB, M&B, UA, AA
Posts: 2,490
AF being French is both bad and good. Bad - we all know it (strikes, taking things easy rather than servicing your passengers, etc.). Good - in France (and French airplanes) they always will serve good wines. It is the norm, that is their pride, that is in their DNA. You will never see a cheap 3 Euro/bottle South African wine at CDG (as is the standard at AMS). Go to any conference in France and they will serve something excellent already at lunch time (we Dutch will offer milk). Go with any of your French friends to a restaurant and you can be sure that the wine list will be thoroughly checked and only a few really good ones will pass the ballot.
Sep 23, 2018, 8:02 am
#1520
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
AF being French is both bad and good. Bad - we all know it (strikes, taking things easy rather than servicing your passengers, etc.). Good - in France (and French airplanes) they always will serve good wines. It is the norm, that is their pride, that is in their DNA. You will never see a cheap 3 Euro/bottle South African wine at CDG (as is the standard at AMS). Go to any conference in France and they will serve something excellent already at lunch time (we Dutch will offer milk). Go with any of your French friends to a restaurant and you can be sure that the wine list will be thoroughly checked and only a few really good ones will pass the ballot.
Fair point, atflyer. Gastronomy and wines are clearly a strong component of the French culture, and AF has been a beacon of French culture over the years, from the wines it serves on board and in the lounges to the high-fashion uniforms of its flight attendants. Still, some have argued that the wine list in the J cabin today is only a pale copy of what it used to be ten years ago, and one might fear that the cost-killers hired by the airlines could lower the standards a notch further. The question is to which extent is AF ready to lower its catering standards without sacrificing its image.
Sep 23, 2018, 9:32 am
#1521
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,367
It seems to me that this is something of an exaggeration. The stuff that they serve in short-haul is nothing to write home about and there is no shortage of places in France that will serve you atrocious plonk. The wine offering in BA lounges has, IME, often been better than in AF's although it is less stark now than it used to be. That said, if the comparison is between AF and KL, then I would agree with you.
Sep 23, 2018, 1:42 pm
#1522
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
That's really nice, but I fly to get to where I need or want to be, not to drink wine. I almost never drink on board or before a flight, so I couldn't care less what alcoholic beverages airlines serve. I can't immediately think of anything that matters less when deciding which airline to fly.
Johan
Johan
Sep 23, 2018, 2:12 pm
#1523
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: AMS
Programs: Hilton Diamond, FB Plat
Posts: 312
You can't sustain 'free' expensive service with a busy lounge like the KLM one at Schiphol, if they want to offer free drinks+food with the quality they have now and higher quality paid items, it'll give me a choice and I can opt to pay for the better ones.
DL does the same in lounges on premium drinks
Sep 23, 2018, 3:08 pm
#1524
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
To go back on topic (Ultimate) 
, I do confirm consistent escort service from BOS (several data point now) : you do skip all the (long) line at security and they bring you to the lounge. This a station with contractors.
, I do confirm consistent escort service from BOS (several data point now) : you do skip all the (long) line at security and they bring you to the lounge. This a station with contractors.
Sep 23, 2018, 3:28 pm
#1525
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
If that means an increase in quality for the paid items, I'm all for it.
You can't sustain 'free' expensive service with a busy lounge like the KLM one at Schiphol, if they want to offer free drinks+food with the quality they have now and higher quality paid items, it'll give me a choice and I can opt to pay for the better ones.
DL does the same in lounges on premium drinks
You can't sustain 'free' expensive service with a busy lounge like the KLM one at Schiphol, if they want to offer free drinks+food with the quality they have now and higher quality paid items, it'll give me a choice and I can opt to pay for the better ones.
DL does the same in lounges on premium drinks
I vehemently disagree with this business strategy. By opening wide the doors of their lounges to nearly every PAXs (including those who rarely fly, yet against payment of a fee), giving them some feeling of entitlement, the airlines purposely lower the standards for everyone. With this strategy, we now all get cheesy, questionable snacks and beverages, while having an option to pay for improved food and drinks (which incidentally were the standard before). Airlines are double-dipping by collecting (i) entrance fees from low-status PAXs who want to enjoy the "lounge experience", and (ii) paid options from those who want a little better than the complimentary liquid plumber and ghastly chips and dips. If my reading of the comments of the KLM shift leader on the future Crown lounge is correct, this is precisely what awaits us. By doubling its capacity, the Schiphol lounge will look like a giant piggy bank, where money will be pouring from lured occasional customers of the airline and frustrated (hyper) frequent-fliers all alike. I wonder --- will an aesthete Silver PAX pay both the entrance fee and the additional paid options to get something that meets his or her gourmet standards
? Call me an elitist if you will, but a better business strategy would consist in (i) restricting access to the lounges to the true top-tier customers of the airlines, to those who have demonstrated loyalty over the years, and (ii) keeping high standards in the catering service, cleanliness of the space, and quiet atmosphere. This strategy, however, suffers from a major drawback --- it is evidently far less profitable than that of broadening access of the lounges, whereby the airlines have their cake and eat it.
Sep 23, 2018, 3:35 pm
#1526
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Champaign, IL
Programs: AF/KL FB Ultimate Platinum for Life/Club 2000, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 524
I do confirm it too, Goldorak, yet, with a caveat. Unlike at ORD, this service was never offered proactively, but at the price of asking for it. Though what really counts in the end is to get the job done, I reckon that the game is almost lost if you have to beg to be escorted through security. I went through BOS already three times this year, and never was the offer spontaneous (bad luck perhaps).
Sep 23, 2018, 5:50 pm
#1527
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,367
As to DL, I don't think that US airline lounges, which operate primarily through a paid membership logic and only marginally through an FFP or Class of service logic can be compared to European ones.
Sep 24, 2018, 2:55 am
#1528
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
That's really nice, but I fly to get to where I need or want to be, not to drink wine. I almost never drink on board or before a flight, so I couldn't care less what alcoholic beverages airlines serve. I can't immediately think of anything that matters less when deciding which airline to fly.
Some of us use AMS as a hub and I can tell you that even the food in Europe C does not feed you if you have a late night intra Europe connection. A good, quick but warm meal (with variety!) in a lounge (and/or onboard) is a reason to swap airlines. I have already opted away from KLM where I know that a different carrier serves warm food and has similar connections. If they think now, that I am willing to pay for it in a lounge they are a further step away from reality...
Obviously this is all driven by economic reasoning and the underlying question is how much extra revenue they will make by charging vs the number of customers turning away from them. As you cannot really measure the latter the first has a higher chance of happening. It is not for nothing that KLM C class is shrinking, not because of the market (LH's is growing) but induced by stupid service cuts (no free middle chair, no wardrobe, no warm food, no cutlery,..) and new pricing ideas pricing such as that one for the lounge.
If they now want to keep the high end customers by offering the ULTI program, they should generously offer all they have (for free!) in order to achieve their goal!
Last edited by travelbits; Sep 24, 2018 at 4:55 am
Sep 24, 2018, 7:57 am
#1529
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: AMS
Programs: FB Platinum PA; IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 307
KLM does offer a free middle seat in EBC.
Sep 24, 2018, 8:12 am
#1530
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 367
I have to clarify free middel seat: I mean a seat next to me being free. As a customer I do not care how to technically describe it, but that I have room available between me and the adjacent passenger
Meaning those numerous routes are served by KLC where there is just 2-2 there is no free seat available for material, etc.(so, 4 pax in a row) In such cases LH blocks one seat to guarantee a free seat next to a C class passenger (so max 2 pax per row all the time). At KLC one sits basically like in Y.
Now one could argue that that is due to KLC, but even those routes that are served in parallel, KLC and KL have the same pricing, despite the fact that in the one there is an empty seat next to you and with the other there is not.
Meaning those numerous routes are served by KLC where there is just 2-2 there is no free seat available for material, etc.(so, 4 pax in a row) In such cases LH blocks one seat to guarantee a free seat next to a C class passenger (so max 2 pax per row all the time). At KLC one sits basically like in Y.
Now one could argue that that is due to KLC, but even those routes that are served in parallel, KLC and KL have the same pricing, despite the fact that in the one there is an empty seat next to you and with the other there is not.