orbitmic

S7 is not joining Skyteam, they are joining Oneworld (as Air Berlin will), and Air China (which is not from Taiwan but from mainland China) is already in *A (and is absolutely horrible). The other Taiwan airline is China Airlines and they are actually joining Skyteam (all signed already).

All alliances have their less good members (do you really like Spanair, Air China, and Blue 1 for *A?) and some of the ST members have improved a lot recently. Tarom is not as bad as it sounds, Vietnam is apparently not bad either, and new entrants also include China Eastern and Shanghai Airlines (mainland China) and China Airlines (Taipei) which are interesting additions to many flyers. I agree with you Jet would be great, and I agree with Jouy31 that Emirates (and Etihad) have explained repeatedly they are not interested in joining an alliance right now, but in the interview of PHG I linked a few days ago, he said that one middle eastern airline has confirmed that they intend to join Skyteam (in addition to MEA which has already said it has). For a number of reasons, I have a strong suspicion this may be Saudia but I may be wrong.

I guess the question is what is the basis that makes an airline a good new member. I agree with all of you that for instance, AR (Aerolineas Argentinas) is not the best airline in the world, but at the same time, it simply is the last airline that was left with a relatively global coverage of South America. Within the next few months, either OW or more probably *A will lose its foothold in South America following the LAN-TAM merger. Should ST have snubbed AR so that *A could choose them? I'd say certainly not and that they were 100% right to accept AR. After all, if someone doesn't like them, nobody forces them to fly with them, but for many ST travellers this will give great connection opportunities. AF, AZ, UX, DL, AM, KL (back in a few months) already fly to EZE and it is possible KE could join the lot (they already fly to GRU) so I think it is great that those of us who want to can earn miles and get ST privileges such as lounge access if we want to fly on to other South American destinations. I feel just the same about Garuda. Is it going to replace KE as my favourite ST service? Not a chance, but it will give a number of options to fly Skyteam to parts of South East Asia and the South Pacific. A couple of years ago, my flights to Australia with Skyteam had to be either KE (ok, as I said, I love it anyway) or AF-KL with codeshares and ridiculously expensive fares. In a few months, my choice will also include Garuda, China Airlines, China Eastern, and China Southern and Vietnam Airlines which have already joined. This multiplies the options to get a good price and a good routing to numerous destinations. Would I like Malaysia to join too? Yes of course, but by now, one has to wonder why this hasn't happened yet, and while MH has nice service (albeit nowhere near as good as it used to be a few years ago), it has been in a terrible financial situation for years now. Would I like Jet to join? Definitely and I have an inkling this is likely to happen soon too. Do I think this makes teh recruitment of China Airlines or Garuda or Aerolineas wrong? No way.

Jaimito Cartero

I don't think Garuda is great, but it is good to have another option. I've flown them on a NW award ticket in 2006, I think, and found the service acceptable. Also the only airline ticket I've ever flown that I was charged $0 on. No taxes, nuthin.

I know that when booking flights to Indonesia, I'd have to add on flights from SIN or BKK, so another option is great.

bcapehart

... well what would be preferably would be AF to carry us between CDG and SYD rather than go halfway and drop us off with MH or Quantas...

MRC

Mishaps hinder Garuda’s ambitions
Nani Afrida and Andi Haswidi, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Tue, 11/23/2010

Cooling their heels: Garuda passengers kill time as their flight at Jakarta’s Soekarno-Hatta International Airport is delayed on Monday. JP/Ricky Yudhistira Garuda Indonesia has laid the groundwork to soar higher in global and regional arenas — but mishaps involving its new IT system are threatening to clip the wings of the country’s flagship carrier.

Monday saw a continuation of the previous day’s events: Delays and the cancellation of flights that left hundreds of furious passengers stranded at several airports throughout the archipelago, including Jakarta.

Garuda’s management issued an apology, saying the delays and cancellations were due to a “technical glitch” in the airline’s newly implemented IT system that controls the flow of flights, pilots, cabin crew and passengers.

The system upgrade, which cost US$1.5 million, is part of the airline’s initiative to improve service before joining SkyTeam, an international airline alliance with carriers such as KLM, Air France, Delta Airlines and Korean Air. The timing is unfortunate. The problems with Garuda’s system, which are expected to persist until Thursday, have become a serious embarrassment as the airline plans to sign an agreement with SkyTeam today.

Garuda’s vice president for corporate communication, Pudjobroto, told The Jakarta Post that all plans with SkyTeam were still on the table.

“Tomorrow we will sign the deal with SkyTeam,” he said on Monday.

Delays and cancellations on Monday were fewer, Pudjobroto said: The airline successfully processed 87 of 102 scheduled flights.

Cancellations affected flights to and from Jakarta, Medan, Palembang and Yogyakarta, he said. It is unclear how many flights were canceled on Sunday, but more urban airports were affected that day and more stranded passengers spotted.

He said all passengers who missed flights on Sunday had been given accommodations and cash equal to the value of their tickets.

“Those who missed their flights and did not want to travel the next day have been given cash equal to twice the value of their tickets.”

Garuda president director Emir-syah Satar said the company would revert to its old system temporarily to meet the existing flight schedule.

“We target the entire system to be normal by Nov. 25,” Emirsyah said.

Meanwhile, he said, Garuda would not accept new flight bookings until Wednesday. He also added that flight cancellations would continue on Tuesday, affecting 13 flights from Jakarta to Kuala Lumpur, Medan, Palembang, Semarang, Makassar and Surabaya.

The repercussions of the technical glitch mean more than financial losses. The company has worked hard to improve its public image to raise Rp 4 trillion (US$448 million)through a public offering of a 40 percent stake in the airline.

Garuda launched a new logo earlier this year to coincide with the introduction of revamped airplanes equipped with individual passenger entertainment systems.

The airline also resumed Jakarta-Amsterdam flights on July 1 using Airbus A330-200 aircraft after the EU Commission lifted a four-year ban on Indonesian airlines. In August, Garuda also launched daily direct flights from Jakarta and Denpasar to Tokyo.

The improvements were acclaimed domestically and internationally. In October, the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation (CAPA) named Garuda the best carrier for service quality in Southeast Asia.

The next big boost for Garuda’s image will be its SkyTeam agreement, which will allow Garuda to fly passengers from other alliance member airlines and vice versa, thus increasing flight frequency.

Service improvements and new routes have translated into increased expenses for the airline. Net profits in the first half of 2010 fell to Rp 175 billion compared to Rp 400 billion in the same period last year on rising costs.

Earlier this month the State-Owned Enterprises Ministry said Garuda suffered a Rp 39.51 billion loss in the third quarter, which it later revised, saying Garuda booked a Rp 194.9 billion net profit in the first nine months of 2010

orbitmic

When is the last time you saw AF, KL, or DL do the same without being obliged to??? There have been numerous reports about KLM trying not to pay the mandatory compensation it owes passengers under EU law when their flights are delayed, and here is an airline which gives you your ticket free (reimbursement in cash too!!) if you are delayed by one day (plus accommodation) or reimburses you twice its value if you accept to cancel your trip while it wasn't even legally obliged to!

@bcapehart: it is almost certain AF could simply not afford a flight to SYD on its own metal. Most European airlines which used to fly to Australia have cancelled their flight except BA which only keeps SYD on its own metal, but codeshares with Australia's largest airline! Stretching (a lot) and codesharing with KL, AZ, etc, etc, they might at best get you inferior service on an A319 dedicate type plane from SIN and this would drag prices up. What is more, not all people going to Oz want to go to SYD! The current agreement offers multiple destinations - MEL, BNE, PER, etc. and the service on QF is simply a hell of a lot better than its AF equivalent in every single class of travel.

So I personally think AF could still keep its current arrangement but it is good we get extra choices coming soon such as GA and CI.

UMD

Garuda may not be a very good airlines up to about 3 years ago. But this airline has managed to turn around so successfully that it may soon be a good contender for the best in the region here in Southeast Asia region.

The latest survey from the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation (here) where GA actually came on top of the pack (even higher than SQ and MH which ironically scored the lowest) should put any doubt on Garuda's quality to rest. It may not be the best yet but as the survey concluded, it has certainly exceeded a lot of expectations of the flying publics.

UMD

It is an unfortunate incident but there is always a risk when there is a new IT system involved. It is good that Garuda has come up to apologize for this incident and compensated the passengers up to 2x the value of the tickets.

A bit OT, NH experienced the same thing (here) as well back in 2007 where up to 130 flights were cancelled.

By the way, as per the latest news release from Delta Airlines this morning, Garuda's entry is now official for 2012.

UMD

It is obvious that Garuda's marketing department has not done a very good job as usual.

Garuda's business class products to AMS and on its medium haul destinations are well above the products on MH and TG. Garuda's A332s are equipped with a horizontal lie flat seats with good privacy. Its A333s for medium haul are all equipped with the latest generation of 170 degree lie flat seats much more advanced to the ones installed on MH's and TG's long haul planes (with a few exception of the 3 new B777 leased from Jet Airways for TG). Comparing to CX's horrible regional business class, GA's medium haul business products are miles ahead.

All its 25 B738 now have AVOD PTVs on all classes as well and another 25 B738 and 2 more A332 are expected to come in 2011. In 2012, the first of its 10 B77W will start arriving in Q1 2012 and will also feature new C class seats again (rumor has it that it will actually install the Sogerma's Soltys seats) and also 4 suite type F class.

As per my previous link to CAPA's latest survey on the airline which rated it higher than SQ, CX, TG, and MH, with good strategy and leadership, an Indonesian company can indeed turn around in 3 years time.

orbitmic

Are you basing this on any specific evidence or is it your interpretation of what is happening? What I have heard - recently and from some MH people themselves - was that MH are still considering that they cannot join a major alliance until their financial situation is stronger and they are more independently sustainable as a business operation. There might be another untold story such as the one you mention, and if so I would be interested in knowing more about it.

PS: UMD's account of the progress of GA is much in line with what I have heard from friends, even though I haven't flown with them personally for 6 years. I think it sometimes takes time before we (frequent flyers) register change in the quality of service of an airline. I still hear a lot of people thinking of SU and AZ as horrible, KE as inferior, and DL as 'just another US airline' but the truth of the matter is that all of the above have had great product improvements on at least some types of services. I would similarly urge all fellow FT friends to not rely on information that might be 2 or 3 years old on GA without a pinch of salt because it is clearly changing fast. Similarly, as I have already mentioned, in my view, MH product is not nearly as nice now as it used to be 5 years ago, and even the greatly praised EK and SQ provide significantly varying types of experiences depending on the type of plane and class of travel one is 'tasting'.

jbcarioca

I have not flown Garuda for years, but I am predisposed to believe it has been improved recently. As for other recent developments I have flown Vietnam frequently and I find to to be very good on SEA routes, but I have not used it outside of SEA. The others are all decent candidates for improvements but ST is most definitely scraping the bottom of the barrel. Oh well, I sued to fly Ariana too, so I'm not proud.

MRC

Some excerpts from an article posted in the Jakarta Post 24 Nov (could not find the digital version on their website)

.....
A series of flight cancellations that persisted since Sunday overshadowed Garuda Indonesia's jubilation at being admitted into SkyTeam, the prestigious alliance of international airlines, on Tuesday.

(...)
To join the alliance, Garuda had to fulfill several requirements, such as having a dedicated terminal. The carrier also had to fulfill 29 other points covering the size of its fleet, punctuality and passenger-to-airport-acccess.

(...)
SkyTeam chairman Leo van Wijk said the alliance welcomed Garuda as a new member: " the most fitting word to characterize 2010 for SkyTeam is growth. Welcoming a member that covers a considerable part of Southeast Asia definitely illustrates our expansion" he said.
Van Wijk said Garuda's financial and operational restructuring had proven successful.
SkyTeam managing director Marie-Joseph Male said Jakarta would serve as an alternative hub into and out of Asia. " Garuda's consideration to expand its routes to Frankfurt, Paris, London and Rome will make the airline an attractive option for business and leisure travellers", Male said.
......

ranskis

the video screens on 737 domestic economy class of Garuda are way bigger than the LH intercontinental first class screens!

UMD

It seems that GA's operation is now back to normal as of 19:30 local time last night (Nov. 24th). This IT glitch which was indeed an unfortunate incident.

Penguinmoon

From yesterday's Jakarta Globe:

"Amadeus Altea will replace Garuda’s existing reservation system, which has been in use since 1990.
The transition will take 18 to 24 months to complete.

Once Garuda is in the Amadeus Altea system, the airline will be connected to a global airline alliance called SkyTeam, said John Chapman, the vice president of Airline Group Amadeus Asia Pacific. SkyTeam members include Dutch airline KLM, Air France, TAROM, Air Europa, Czech Airlines and MEA."

Does this mean GA won't join until transition is complete? Does that mean another two years?

DHalltheway

Garuda was suppose to join ST end 2011 - start 2012. This was subsequently pushed back to mid 2012. Presently, I am reading timeframes of within 2012 and possibly Q1 2013.

PS: OT, I like your screen name