MCI777

I'm sure this rant has been covered a million times but just wanted to vent my frustration at CDG.

Last week I transited through CDG with 1hour 15minute connection time and barely made it (Why does AF consider this "legal" I will never know). Anyway, I came in from Seoul on AF and the AF rep at ICN (Korean Air) said she could not give me a boarding pass in ICN(I didnt think this would be a problem at the time.) for my ATL flight from CDG on AF.

We land at CDG with 55 minutes before my connecting flight and board the dreaded bus. I get to the transfer desk with 45 minutes to spare and come to find out that the rep in ICN never checked me in all the way through. So the girl at the desk tells me I have to sit in Economy( I was travelling on a business award) because I did not make the 1 hour check in cut off. The rep tells me I can inquire at the gate for my business class seat but there is nothing more she can do. I head off through immigration and then over to 2E, proceed back through security (where everything in my bag is analyzed and needs"further inspection"). Now with 25 minutes to take off, I make to the gate and inquire about a business class seat. "Im sorry Mr MCI777, we have given your seat away and can not seat you in Business." ...!!!!!! I firmly stated that I wanted a First Class seat or my Business seat. The gate agent conferred with the Supervisor (I assume) and she was able to get a seat for me in Biz. The GA also made sure to remind me that I needed to be on time for check-in. Its always the pax fault, right?

I will say that the staff I encountered were not rude, just indifferent. The AF flight attendants were great but the ground staff leave a little to be desired.

AF is a great airline but CDG is a mess.

Zembla

Security is security....

Even reading this makes me angry!


Anyway, 1:15 minutes is tight in CDG. I've even been pushed when I had 2 hours.
Recently, I have been picked up at the gate when leaving the (delayed) aircraft. I was escorted to my connecting flight in a short time. In the latest Flying Dutchman magazine they were even advertising with this service, so hopefully this is going to be common?

Further, if things are tight, and if you are at security and show your boarding card they'll allow you to move to the front.

WombatWi

I read quite a lot of bad reviews of CDG. Connected there frequently an actually think the airport is quite nice. It can be quite a run with tight coonnections, so I usually try to have 2 hours. Was flying in from NUE (Germany) one time, connecting for a flight to CAI. We were a bit delayed and greeted by AF staff at the aircraft an were shuttled in a van to the apporpriate terminal. The AF lady went through security with us and everything went smoothly. Even my luggage made it. For whatever reason my travel companion's luggage arrived a day later, despite the fact we checked in together in NUE...
This was all on Economy tikcets.

hfly

Your experience down to be admonished for being late is absolutely par for the course, Wombat's is the exception to the rule as tarmac transfers are so hit and miss that they cannot be counted on, ever.

ThCo

I will say: flying AF is great (plane + lounge)
once you land in CDG the nightmare begin and will not end until you fight 6 monthes with the Flying Blue Hotline to receive the correct amount of miles

AshleyB

This seems to be a constant problem. I often see passengers pleading with nasty accusatory AF ground staff. The fact is the airport is very badly run by political cronies of this and past governments. So you have a facility that is largely outdated and often downright filthy staffed by people (AF employees) who hate their jobs and wish the passengers would all just stay home so that they could then go have a coffee and complain. Happily once on board it is all very professional and pleasant. I don't know why AF is incapable of tackleing the ground staff problem.

JOUY31

Luckily, my experience is somewhat different. ADP and AF ground staff have been very helpful to me, in various situations such as delayed baggage, misplacing my mobile handset or missing my plane due to a suicide on the RER. That CDG continues to operate effectively and have additional traffic growth is a tribute to the work of ADP and AF staff who lack a magical wand to solve the problems born from insufficient infrastructure and who have to live everyday with it.

In addition, CDG has a long term masterplan which is better than most European airports, with the introduction of new terminals and satellites (S3, S4, CDG 2G, CDG 4) and its existing runways. The problem ADP has is implementation. They need to have a very hard nosed implementation strategy and a far better attention to detail. I believe both AF and ADP are conscious of the current CDG flaws, but 2008 should be a great year with S3, 2E and 2G finally completed.

hfly

Jouy, in all fairness I do not believe that yu connect very often through CDG and that is the crux of the matter. Great, they are expanding more, however if that just means even more busses and delays it will be a negative rather than a positive.

JOUY31

You're right, hfly. I only connect once every two months in CDG and haven't done so recently to the US, with its specific connection issues in CDG. In addition, my flight experience is more limited than for very frequent travelers such as yourself. Nevertheless, I am optimistic and hopeful; I have seen the improvements as an ordinary pax just leaving and arriving at CDG. I am looking forward to further improvements.

My personal experience when using other major European hubs, either as a connection point or as a destination is not stellar either. They all have their downsides and quirks, such as walking 20mn to the Victor Zone in T4 at LHR, waiting 30mn upon arrival at LHR before crossing a runway and a further 15mn to have a gate, after a 40mn flight from CDG, major queues at the T1/T2 FCC ... In AMS, landing on a distant runway with a taxi time of 20mn, before reaching a distant D gate, running across AMS in the middle of a shopping mall to a B gate with a horrendous queue at the security checkpoint after immigration ... In FRA, arriving by bus and running almost the entire length of concourse A to reach another bus gate, or running in the tunnel to Concourse B ... Once again, this is my personal experience and currently, the airport I really enjoy connecting at is definitely ... HKG, but it is outside my standard travel pattern, which is Europe.

So, I agree with you that CDG definitely needs to improve and that its expansion needs to be a positive rather than a negative. I believe it can and we will see if it does .

LHR arrival experience thread
BAA (British Airport Authority) service thread

San Gottardo

Flying AF longhaul: great!
Flying AF shorthaul: great, except the disgraceful "catering" (=glorified dog food) in European Business Class
Trying to get on an AF flight, i.e. their processes on the ground: dreadful, frowned with useless complications and lacking ease-of-use and comfort.
Anything depending directly or indirectly upon ADP: can we please have the guys organising a football match in Zaire, even they would do a better job at organising things.

There are tedious aspects of Paris CDG which have to do with its size, and you find similar or at least equally annoying aspects of travel at other hubs (LHR, AMS, FRA). However, many things that do not work in Paris cannot be explained or excused by size: trash lying around everywhere, poor signage, completely disorganised security checks, broken flight departure monitors or shopwing incorrect information, broken infrastructure...

As Jouy31 very correctly pointed out, ADP has a great plan - but they really need to work on their implementation.

Whenever I see ADP I come to think of Airbus. Airbus worked (OK, sort of...) because the French had the courage and vision and the idea, and the Germans made it work. At ADP, there are no Germans... thus the great plans, with very very poor execution.

Dieuwer

I find security at AMS not too bad compared with US airports. Besides, if your are late or have dificulty walking, you can always flag a cart to take you to the gate.

MCI777

I saw AF staff meeting passengers for their connections and this should have been the case with me as well. However, since I was never checked in all the way through it appeared to AF as CDG being my final destination. Ultimately, this would have been easier if ICN would have checked me through to ATL.

hfly

At AMS there is a "short connection" (or similarly named) ppt line for those with less than 45 minutes left in their connections that operates when the lines are horrendous, there is no such thing at CDG. Yes at AMS the distances can be daunting, but at least you can run it, there is no such possibility with many CDG connections and there is nothing more frustrating at CDG than to wait 15 mins for a connection bus (after having waited 10 minutes for stairs to arrive at your plane, waiting for every single passenger on a 777 to deplane, then taking a 10 minute trip to the terminal), then its full when it arrives, and you wait another 10 minutes for the next one, then get the scenic tour of the airport and in cases of 2E extreme repeating the bus situation AGAIN (and all anti AF, anti-CDG prejudice aside the worst regular security wait that I have seen anywhere on earth is at 2E).

AshleyB

Happily I also do not have to connect very often at CDG so it is more a question of observing LARGE numbers of very unhappy and confused passengers riding in an endless bus loop around the airport. I too have had few problems with AF staff, who have usually tried to do help when I have missed a flight or whatever. But I am a frequent traveller who knows the system and has a platinum card (for what it is worth) of AF. For foreign passengers unused to travelling and unfamiliar with the "challenges" posed by CDG the experience must be pretty awful. I am thinking of them. Other than that I am appalled and embarassed by the filth of CDG. Rubbish overflowing everywhere, cigarette stubs all over the floor and inadequate seating. Toilets are often out of order or simply disgusting. CDG compares VERY unfavourably to AMS or MUC, and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Hong Kong. Master plan for the future notwithstanding ADP fails miserably in its obligation (and this is a statutory obligation) to provide basic, decent services to the travelling public. It is one thing for us to say it is not so bad from the comfort (such as it is) of the Salon AF. Have some sympathy for families with children who literally have to push the trash aside to find somewhere to sit on the floor (I actually saw this on Sunday night!).

JOUY31

Well, I go through CDG2 2 or 3 times a week, twice a month through LHR at T1, T2 or T4. I don't find CDG filthy; LHR doesn't seem much cleaner and is probably more rundown, but that's just my personal experience.