Did AF strip the ovens from the A320/A321s?

I assume many like me either buy business class tickets for their private trips or upgrade at OLCI. And many of us may not be tempted to buy a Business Class with AF as the soft product is not worth it especially on those longer routes. So if the AF bean counters that want to increase revenues and margins, they better have a look at the revenues that would be generated if a better service is provided.

That is hard to quantify but they should look at the example of British Airways and their Gatwick base. BA at LGW is 99% point to point and it looks like the operation there is going well. Club Cabins can stretch to the emergency exists on the A320s fleet. They must make good revenue on these flights. And these have better margins than Club Cabins filled with connecting passengers.

Yes, and I totally appreciate your perspective on that.

Let me just point out where I don�t share your reasoning (=there is no �right� or �wrong�, just taking a different bifurcation in the logic chain):

This my first point of disagreement, not with you, but with the unions. I know that maximising the ratio of EUR/hours-not-doing-a-thing is their reason to exist. But in reality this �it�s too much work, too much stress, flights are too short� is a total BS argument when you take into account the operational reality:

1. on the really short flights there are 2 FAs working the J cabin (I am writing this from onboard one such flight)
2. other airlines manage perfectly well to do it on flights of any duration, even in Europe (BA for instance)
3. on the flights where there is supposedly only one FA serving the J cabin, they are long enough, so let the one FA heat the meals and only start service when meals are hot (he can twiddle his thumbs in the meantime). Or switch on the oven, and while meals are heated, do a pre-meal drinks round with his/her cart and then a second round with the meal.
4. Often crews adapt to the situation, so they can temporarily dispatch a second FA to J just to heat the meals (although that �heating� means switching on the oven and then taking meals out 20 minutes later, total work time is 1-2 minutes for the few movements that are required).

But there is no need to add back the headcount, as demonstrated above or as a flight on many European airlines illustrate so well. Instead of adding back headcount, tell the unions to stop whining.

SOme time ago on a CDG-LIS I had a 25 minute long conversation with an FA who explained me that there was no time to do hot meals - until after those 25 minutes I told him �but you�re here, just chit-chatting, so I don�t understand how there is no time�. Demonstration of their fallacious argument flying to their face.

You are 100% right. But as said, there is no need to do that. Put ovens in just like other airlines with the same cabin layout, and the problem is solved.

Not sure I understand your point, but mine being �just have ovens and hot meals on all those flights� and that swapping problem ceases to be one.

Nothing at all!! Why would I? There is no need to! They don�t need to add more FAs than they already have staffed today. So the only cost effect will come from the actual food, the difference will be, what, something less than 10 EUR? Heck, there are thousands of fares out there that can apply to a given flight, I am sure they�ll find a way to bake it into one of them (no pun intended).

Oh but no European company wants to fight the unions, AF KL included. AF KLM have done a better job in recent years avoiding strikes, unlike practically every entity in Germany.

AF and KLM would risk more financially and reputationally if they played hardball, learning to disruptions and strikes, versus ceding to the "workload reduction" demands.

I'm totally with you on that point that "workload" is a lame excuse (it's a European thing), but the risk of a costly labour dispute is greater.

On that topic, we are hearing that an additional FA on the A220 requested by the unions has been refused by AF.

To reduce the workload, it has been agreed that any FA operating a flight to North Africa on a A220 will now only do 2 flights in the same day. I fail to see the logic here since CDG-ALG/TUN are shorter than CDG-ATH�

And it seems AF is moving towards a 100% A220 fleet for shorthaul by 2030. There are even ongoing works on further simplifying the service and improving the workload.

This explains why AF is trialling a new catering concept in Economy for longer routes (currently ATH, TUN, RBA) while reducing the service to just a biscuit and drinks for most European flights.

Abonn� fares in J, which are fully flexible, can also be around 400 EUR. Also if you are eligible for Senior Card fares, although the fares are not as flexible as the Abonn� fares (no go-show).

I'm sorry, but...


..hwat?

777s are also used for domestic flights, does that mean CDG-LAX must get sucre sale? What even is that argument...

truth of the matter is simple, AF is too cheap so in compromise with unions they took some difficult to reverse steps, now they are quite uncompetitive in J, but they don't care because they don't care about intra-EU J market, J is only useful as a connector to intercontinental.

Did some research and it seems that Swiss has also 3 FAs on board its A220s�

is working for AF more tiring than LX?

Of course it is! Any work is more tiring in France, which is why they have to retire so much earlier than everybody else.

why two rounds of heating? the business class cabin tends to be very small on the European flights. if the smaller oven can heat 32 meals you would have to have 11 rows of business (3 pax per row).

these subscription cards are only available for flights from France (with a few airport exceptions) - in the remainder of Europe you won't find any AF/KL business class fare below 550� - two, three years ago pricing started at 400� but nowadays I don't find any AF/KL fares below 600� for the destinations I want to go. On the other hand side - from NUE I can find many LH business class flights from 300�.

The idea being that with a better product the service would be more in demand, increasing overal revenue. And while that would be true for myself (I would be more inclined to purchase business when the meal service is better), I also believe that may not apply to everyone. It may also be very route dependent.

Prices as mentioned above (400 euro r/t) that's something I haven't personally seen on AF since Covid times. When comparing a 800 euro AF roundtrip via Paris, or a 500 euro Aegean service (in my case direct) there is effectively only a single choice. If AF were to be in the same price realm, and especially if hot meals were included, I'd be much more tempted to fly them.

Part of the problem for pax originating in AMS is the AMS-CDG sector. These are often only available in high fare classes due to being almost exclusively feeder flights to longhaul. That drives up pricing immensely for EU flights originating in AMS and flying onwards from CDG. This may, possibly, be due to AF using A220 on the AMS route offering less capacity there.