AF to reduce domestic-only flights as a condition of bailout

Old May 1, 20, 1:37 am
  #16  
 
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Honestly this is the kind of powerful government announcement that will never happen in my opinion.
You can not impose that to AF but not to U2 or FR.
On flights from BOD/LYS/NTE to CDG, 80% of the pax are connecting to long-haul flights. On flights to ORY, there are many pax connecting to Antilles and La Reunion. And it doesnt make sense (economically and environmentally) not to the sell the remaining seats, as the carbon footprint would be higher per pax.
Yes AF can use smaller planes, but as someone pointed out they are less efficient, so not really an improvement.
AF can also reduces the number of flights, but that would benefit competitors such as LH, BA, EK in these markets.

But anyway, I am skeptical that this measure will materialize.
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Old May 1, 20, 2:07 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Satie View Post
Honestly this is the kind of powerful government announcement that will never happen in my opinion.
You can not impose that to AF but not to U2 or FR.
On flights from BOD/LYS/NTE to CDG, 80% of the pax are connecting to long-haul flights. On flights to ORY, there are many pax connecting to Antilles and La Reunion. And it doesnt make sense (economically and environmentally) not to the sell the remaining seats, as the carbon footprint would be higher per pax.
Yes AF can use smaller planes, but as someone pointed out they are less efficient, so not really an improvement.
AF can also reduces the number of flights, but that would benefit competitors such as LH, BA, EK in these markets.

But anyway, I am skeptical that this measure will materialize.
Fully agree, and I hope you are right in the fact it will not materialize.
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Old May 1, 20, 2:58 am
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I could be wrong, but my view from abroad is that SARS-Cov-2 has been the opportunity for the French Central Administration (Haute Administration, Enarchie, whatever) to regain all its power against a trend that was showing more power granted to regions and cities.
Making "powerful statements" without understanding all the practical implications is typical of politicians.

All the pros and cons have been mentioned before.
I fear for AF longhaul traffic if that means reducing the frequency of flights such as BOD-CDG. Foreign airlines like BA, LH or LX have been aggressive in getting transit longhaul pax. It will take a very long time to restore leisure travel to previous level, but when it does, AF will be at a cost disadvantage from the pre-covid situation. If AF maintains the same frequency, there will be no pollution improvement but it will make it more costly to operate without the PtoP traffic (usually business people). And operating BOD-ORY solely for DOM-TOM connecting pax will be unrealistic.
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Old May 1, 20, 3:33 am
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To me it seems a good idea no more flights on sectors till 2h , but AF was already reducing domestic flights due to heavy losses...so AF will be more then happy to deliver this to Le Maire... same as buying only Airbus aircraft ( a 220 ) mission accomplished!
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Old May 1, 20, 11:34 am
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Few thoughts.

It's not uncommon to hear of passengers who work in Paris but actually commute from home in Bordeaux by train - there is a certain movement about quality of life that big cities don't offer. Fun to visit them but they have their detractions too. I realize it may not be ideal for all, but for example are there no high speed lines from CDG to Bordeaux?

AF doesn't even fly to Brussels - everyone takes the train at CDG2 Grand Lignes station instead.

Someone must have the stats for % connection passengers at CDG v KL/BA/LH/LX etc - but out of NYC we connect many people to the regions in the UK, all over Europe, the Mid-East and West Africa as well as France. And we have AMS just up the road. I think some environmental stimulus to reduce our carbon footprint from the Government is amazing, and this is an opportunity to speed up our efforts. Wish our Government in the USA was as enlightened!
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Old May 1, 20, 3:30 pm
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
Making "powerful statements" without understanding all the practical implications is typical of politicians.
Indeed but then I would expect this crowd to be able to distinguish grandstanding/'effet d'annonce' from politicians from ultimate reality on the ground. But, no, there seems to be a constituency that will take those things at face value every time and get into the same genus of hyperboles and simplifications, only from the other side.

I think that one should take Le Maire statement as no more than a political signal. As such, it is rather OK. But if you try to imbue it with more meaning than that and take it too literally, then I think that you are bound to come a cropper.
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Old May 1, 20, 8:35 pm
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Domestic air travel has resumed in China at a rapid pace.
I know that comparisons with Europe are totally impossible. And China has put in place a set of control measures that might be impossible in Europe. But there might be hope.
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Old Dec 3, 20, 3:55 pm
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In response to the axing of La Navette ORY-BOD flights, AF is introducing the Train+Air service to link Bordeaux train station with ORY (note : "TGV Air" name does not exist anymore and is replaced by "Train + air", a revolution (I hope they did not pay too much the communication agency for that ).
But, as you know, ORY does not have a train station so the service involves Massy TGV station. So thanks to this totally stupid political decision to forbid any flights between ORY and BOD, people from Bordeaux have now to endure the transfer Massy-ORY on a crowded highway and a much longer transfer time. At least AF is trying to make it nice. This service is particularly aimed at connecting Bordeaux to PTP/FDF/CAY/RUN.
Bordeaux St Jean (ZFQ) to Massy (XJY). 60 trains/week. MCT is 2 hrs.
As usual, the train segment is booked under AF code on a single ticket with the flight. The transfer Massy-ORY is done by a pre-booked taxi (organized by AF).
All connections are guaranteed (pax are protected in case of misconnection due to delay of train/flight or because of heavy traffic between ORY and Massy).
Here are the details of the connections Bordeaux-DOM-TOM :



And, as a reminder, here are all the Train+Air services available via ORY & CDG:
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Old Dec 3, 20, 7:48 pm
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This is totally crazy.

It will be Meassy. (could not resist the joke).
For example, the taxi assigned AF staff might be sick or on strike. AF has probably negotiated some low contract fare with taxis, and they will not be motivated at peak hours, .....And traffic means that transfer can take 1h at times.
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Old Dec 3, 20, 11:43 pm
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
This is totally crazy.

It will be Meassy. (could not resist the joke).
For example, the taxi assigned AF staff might be sick or on strike. AF has probably negotiated some low contract fare with taxis, and they will not be motivated at peak hours, .....And traffic means that transfer can take 1h at times.
This system is already in place for the other destinations listed in the table and the taxi part works AFAIK, but the risk is the traffic on the road indeed. But one can blame those who managed to take this brillant decision to forbid BOD-ORY flights...
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Old Dec 4, 20, 3:18 am
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Originally Posted by Goldorak View Post
This system is already in place for the other destinations listed in the table and the taxi part works AFAIK, but the risk is the traffic on the road indeed. But one can blame those who managed to take this brillant decision to forbid BOD-ORY flights...
As usual, all the VIPs live in Paris region, so they don't care.
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Old Dec 4, 20, 6:26 am
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
As usual, all the VIPs live in Paris region, so they don't care.
Oh, come on. Let us not engage in Gilets Jaunes-style easy populist rhetoric. Let us leave that to LFI and the RN.

And let us keep a sense of proportion as well. How many passengers are there daily between BOD and the DOMs?
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Old Dec 5, 20, 2:08 am
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They are also starting some flights from CDG to PTP/FDF I think, then i am pretty sure that BOD CDG will be timed appropriately for a connection that cannot be done conveniently via ORY.
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Old Apr 12, 21, 3:13 am
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Another issue that politicians seem to totally ignore is that airports and rail hubs rarely overlap. Someone earlier pointed out that the train from Bordeaux to Montparnasse is fast but access to CDG takes a long time, either through Paris traffic in a taxi or on the Metro, which is definitely not designed for the traveller with lots of luggage. We have the same problem in the UK where I can get from Sheffield to London in 2 hours by train but onward travel to LHR is in excess of 1 hour and takes int he world's most expensive stretch of railway (Paddington Express).

Major hub airports need to be served by direct train routes from regional towns and cities otherwise the policy to eliminate the flights from regional airports makes little sense.
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Old Apr 12, 21, 3:41 am
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Originally Posted by roberino View Post
Another issue that politicians seem to totally ignore is that airports and rail hubs rarely overlap. Someone earlier pointed out that the train from Bordeaux to Montparnasse is fast but access to CDG takes a long time, either through Paris traffic in a taxi or on the Metro, which is definitely not designed for the traveller with lots of luggage. We have the same problem in the UK where I can get from Sheffield to London in 2 hours by train but onward travel to LHR is in excess of 1 hour and takes int he world's most expensive stretch of railway (Paddington Express).

Major hub airports need to be served by direct train routes from regional towns and cities otherwise the policy to eliminate the flights from regional airports makes little sense.
Depends on the country. In France the large airports aren't rail hubs, the London airports aren't rail hubs, in the US the large airports aren't rail hubs. On the other hand, airports like Amsterdam, Zurich or Frankfurt are integral parts of their countries' and the European high speed and local railway network.

But that's also why AF will be permitted to continue serving those cities from CDG, to allow for connecting flights from its CDG hub. At the same time, CDG is actually connected to the French high speed network. But the French high speed network is organised with "random" schedules: instead of having the same route served at the same minute past the hour every hour/every two hours, with connections at the hub points synced (this is what they have in the NL, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, UK...) the French network has a more or less regular-interval schedule on some routes, but the rest is just random. For instance, to get from CDG to Lille, in non-corona times, there is no train before 8am (great if you land at 5.30am like many flights do), then there are five trains between 8am and 10.30am, and then nothing until 1pm. No idea why they don't have the TGV station at CDG be a hub for cross-country TGVs on a web of Lille/Strasbourg/Rennes/Nantes/Bordeaux/Lyon-South East trains with TGVs at least once every two hours /resp. one hour for the busier routes. It would solve the problem of CDG not being very reachable by train and at the same time make cross-country connections easier.
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