Mirk

I don't see the problem, when I go on EF if I ask for the business cabin it gives me an error and display the whole plane if I ask for economy.

There's is no separated J class on this route.

tgv2

Let's see:

KLM.nl doesn't sell C-tickets for AMS-MRS, only Y. No single flight between now and april 2018 when you select business. A M-fare shows the seatmap and you can select a seat in front from row 1 in a 3-3 configuration.

AF does sell C-tickets but the seatmap gives you a seat in Y (row 12).

carnarvon

That is very weird.

If the OP cared to share with us what AF negligible answer was, it would help us understand.

P.S. I called AF Plat line. This flight has C cabin everyday. They cannot access the seat map for this particular day for an unknown reason. However she said that if there was no C cabin she would not be able to sell J fare.

What is weird though, is that when searching C ticket with AF app, I am offered a Flex ticket, not C. Same for all flights though.

Expedia sells Z fare though.

Looks like an IT glitch to me.

avi8tir

Just completed this trip as there were no better options and I had meetings to get to. When I said the AF response was "negligible" I simply meant that they didn't have a clear answer.....

All 3 legs of my trip were booked into a C fare - business.

AMS-MRS did not have business

MRS-CDG did not have business

CDG-AMS did have business

What kind of recourse do I have at this point? A coach ticket would have been less than half the price of what I paid.

Again, I cannot understand how an airline can sell a business fare ticket on a flight that does not have business class.

PS, the funniest part of this all is that the most uncomfortable leg of the trip was the leg that actually had business! I felt like I was on Vueling!!! It was SO cramped!!! The all Y cabins on legs 1 & 2 had much more comfortable seats and it like more leg room as well.

WorldLux

I'm still not getting your original problem.

Were you actually sitting in Y with a Y boarding pass or simply sitting at the front of a "Euro C", i.e. a Y seat with slightly better catering?

In the former one, you could ask reimbursement of an involuntary downgrade (30 or 35% of the fare). In latter case, well congratulations to your first flight in EURO-C.

avi8tir

The problem is, I booked BUSINESS - C fare for all 3 legs but only 1 of the flights had business!

the first 2 were all Y cabins. Yet AF sells business fares on these flights.

I am not confusing Euro C with Intl C... I fly Euro C every week on various carriers (mainly KL and LH) so I know what to expect. It was my first time in years on AF and was surprised at how poor the seats and space were on the CDG - AMS leg that had Euro C.

carnarvon

Hello,

Being very intrigued by your sorry, I called Plat line again.

This time, I spoke with a knowledgeable agent.

He said there was NO business class on flights originating (or with destination) provincial cities even when going to European destinations.

He said too, that he was very surprised that you were sold a C class ticket as he would not be able to sell it.

Making further searches, I discovered the following thing on AF website:

- when searching a OW (AMS/MRS) choosing Business class, I am offered Y only (light/standard/flex).

- however, when searching a RT ticket (AMS/MRS/AMS) choosing Business class, I am offered C, even though there is no C !

Cherry on the cake: the return MRS/AMS is NEVER offered non stop. Has to be via BOD or CDG. Hard to understand.

I think you have a case for complaint with AF.

brunos

Indeed, the AF website can be misleading. As Carnavon noted, the return MRS-AMS is never offered as non stop, only as transit via CDG when trying to book business. It does offer the nonstop both ways when booking economy! Note that if you select the outbound AMS-MRS in C via CDG, then you get offered the nonstops MRS-AMS.
I guess that the OP needed a stopover in CDG, otherwise it makes no sense to book such a ticket.

My guess is that to construct the C fare basis between AMS and MRS there needs to be at least one segment in Business, so that forces to have one direction on a CDG-AMS or AMS-CDG in business.

Whether you have a valid complaint is another question. Your ticket is priced on a C fare basis because of the segment CDG-AMS. It is common that domestic French flights (no business class) on a longhaul ticket sold in J jave the fare basis J displaid for that segment. This is just a fare pricing information. It would be interesting to know what your BP displays as class.

carnarvon

I just did 2 simulations.

AMS/MRS/AMS in C as the OP did. Comes up to +/- € 800 (with stopover in CDG for the return flight).

AMS/MRS/AMS in Y Flex comes up to +/- € 800 as well. However, this is only if you choose to go via CDG (as you are forced to do when booking C).

If you choose the direct flight MRS/AMS, the total Y flex fare is +/- € 500....

Unless the OP specifically wanted to make a stopover in CDG, he was misled in believing he had to fly via CDG on the return leg of his trip and as a result, paid € 300 more than in Y flex.

ranskis

I think I understand what happened: you bought an AMS CDG fare, not an AMS MRS fare. On the outbound, you had a stopover in MRS since the J3FFNL fare allows for routings through MRS between AMS and CDG.

There is a J booking class on AF domestic flights: it is used for business class connections, so they could sell and overbook a domestic flight in case the passenger continues on highly lucrative J/P fare, although they don't want to have it booked in economy class as it is already full. It seems the same applies on the AMS MRS, which is used to connect to KL long haul routes. There is a J booking class but no J fare for this route (same as AF domestic).

Example:

Since there is no J cabin on AMS MRS, AF does not publish any business class fare between AMS and MRS, so flying AMS C CDG Y MRS Y CDG C AMS cannot be done on one ticket! When simulating on AF.com a booking in C, if you choose the direct flight AMS MRS, you can only select connecting flights on the way back, and if you choose the connecting flight via CDG outbound, you can only select a direct flight on the way back.

Since both AMS MRS and MRS CDG have the same "J booking class in economy class cabin" feature, the system sold it at the AMS CDG J fare, hence the experience of the OP even if all showed as business online since it is a real J fare with all J fare benefits.

If AF wants to make this right, they need to exclude connecting points that have no business class on any leg on all AMS CDG business class fares... and publish business class fares AMS MRS with a routing "TRAVEL MUST NOT BE DIRECT" to force a routing via Paris (et plus si affinités ).Yes I know, wishful thinking

BOSTravels

I had a similar experience. Booked BOS-CDG-MRS in J but found out when arriving in CDG that CDG-MRS was Y only. .
Had I know this, I would have booked BOS-CDG-XZN (my final destination was Avignon).

carnarvon

Very unpleasant indeed.

As always, there is something good to a bad situation.

1) you had access to the lounge where you could take a shower if you wanted to, as well as breakfast if you skipped it in the plane (as so many people do on such short TATL flights).

2) It could have been worse.

Think about having to transfer from CDG to ORY for your flight to MRS.

BOSTravels

Moral of the story: if you fly from abroad and need to travel to a secondary city, book it as a flight+train itinerary.