Vaclav

All booked with AC.

1) Canada - Europe: leaving in January, returning in June

2) Europe - Canada: leaving in February, returning in March
leaving in April,returning in May etc.

Some upgradeable fares are more interesting when the trip originates
in Europe.

Dieuwer

Part of this trip seems to be "back-to-back" ticketing. I think that AC prohibits this. See http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/in...3_infoform.pdf

Shareholder

It's actually called a Nested Ticket. The whole concept of Back-to-Back has been pretty much relegated to the cellar today as AC -- and other airlines -- has introduced its one-way fares and no Saturday overnight restrictions. Thus the rationale behind B-t-B is no longer an issue.

As for this case, it would be hard for AC to spot any abuse as long as all the sectors are flown legitimately. At a Do long ago, I raised this type of booking with someone from AE as a means of doing a MR on international routes where there was a 7-day stay requirement on the lowest fare, and he raised no objection, again as long as all the segments were flown in the order they were booked.

Vaclav

Thanks for the interesting replies.

I knew about back-to-back tickets but not about the nested ticket.

In my example in #1 the itineraries are quite transparent and actually most
revenue would go to AC.

It is possible to be less transparent, and book on LH or involve both Star Alliance and Skyteam at similar cost but spread revenue. In case of very
frequent travel, the passenger would be also able to gain premium status
with two airlines.

I know one TA who actually books back-to-back for a busines associate
and she had no complaints so far.

Shareholder

TAs can be among the greatest rule breakers when it comes to such things. Many are thiefs and unscrupulous in such matters. (Most are honest and helpful, like our own tcook.) Airlines have sued and won on the back-to-back issue.

Will you be caught? Only if AC suspects your TA of doing this regularly and decides to crack down on him/her. In which case you'd be caught in the web of a larger investigation. It would be your Europe-Canada-Europe tickets that might be suspect but as long as these trips are done discretely, i.e. you start and return on a single booking/ticket, then do the next one in the same way, and the next, there should be no problem as these would not be Back-to-Backs. And the original Nested Ticket/Booking would never really be traced as it is a legitimate fare and booking.

If, however, aside from the original Nested trip, you come back to Canada on the first coupon of one ticket, then return to Europe on the first coupon of a third ticket, etc. that would constitute Back to Back, and technically be in breach of the fare rules, and subject to prosecution.

My understanding for you doing this is the possibility of booking an "instant upgrade" M fare into I-class, and the fact that M class is cheaper from most European cities than from Canada.

Vaclav

Yes, indeed!

The TA and back to back is a real case but NOT involving myself.
I would not be comfortable doing that. It is my business colleague working
for another company, we just happen to have a common TA.

tcook052

Thanks, I think.

In case it needed to be said, I don't believe my chosen profession any more populated with an undesirable element than any other. But them, I'm sure most of those here already know this.

thefareguru

Tell us about the thieves.

As for my dealings [in the biz since 1973], I'll exploit any loophole. Guess what! You're on flyertalk and that's what we do here.

Breaking rules is a different matter. But it is usually for the greater benefit of the client, and only done if there is no chance of hurting the agency with a penalty. Example: if a man calls you in YVR, he is in YYT and needs a 1-way ticket to return 5 days from now on a Tuesday, do you a) sell him a 1-way Y class fare for >$1000 or b) sell him a weekend special fare [YVR-YYT-YVR] that existed in the 90s where you leave on a Saturday and return on a Mon/Tues for $219 ripping out the first coupon [cancelling the first segment] and Fedexing the ticket to him? All you make in commission on the reduced ticket is $18.07. Would you as the client refuse to accept the ticket because I broke a rule, or is this within your threshold of honour because you will save close to $1000? I wonder, Shareholder.

I did this for a valued client.

Now tell us about those in tcook's and my profession that have stolen from you.