AC Long-haul Fleet Deployment

Old Jul 26, 22, 8:01 am
  #1  
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AC Long-haul Fleet Deployment

Hey gang - I've noticed that in 2022 most of my long-haul flying on AC seems to be on the 788 (predominantly on the YYZ/YUL-LHR routes), whereas in prior years, the 77W and 789 (and to a lesser extent, even the 333) were much more prevalent in my flight log.

I'm curious if this is a function of changes to my flight patterns or complete happenstance based on too few datapoints, or the result of changes to AC's deployment of its long-haul fleet. Is there any way to systematically look at how AC's fleet is deployed over time? My own flying has been heavily TATL-oriented over the past 2-3 years.

With air traffic levels at or near pre-pandemic highs, and broadly speaking less flying to Asia, I would have thought that European routes would be seeing more larger aircraft if anything.

Curious to hear whether others have observed anything similar, or have any thoughts on this. Cheers!
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Old Jul 26, 22, 8:06 am
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I believe the 777L is being used around the war in Ukraine (DEL) as SYD and BNE have been 789s for a while. Must really be pissing off AC for the loss of cargo space.

That is my only datapoint I can add. I very much like the 789 but prefer the 777L on the ULHs
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Old Jul 26, 22, 8:54 am
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Originally Posted by capedreamer View Post

With air traffic levels at or near pre-pandemic highs, and broadly speaking less flying to Asia, I would have thought that European routes would be seeing more larger aircraft if anything.

Curious to hear whether others have observed anything similar, or have any thoughts on this. Cheers!
Take a look at Flightradar24 at night and filter by AC after all the evening departures from YUL And YYZ.

AC is throwing everything they’ve got at Europe this summer from a333 to 788 789 77Ws to meet the tourist demand. I don’t think they’ve had this many destinations in years as previously they had to serve Asia fully as well. Many of the second and even some third tier cities are being served with wide bodies.

The LHR route just has more frequencies I suspect to answer your question.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 9:03 am
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AC only has 8 787-8 vs 24 77s and 29 787-9 so it might just be the specific flights you were on.

With so few 787-8s, it's easier to track and they have a pretty consistent schedule.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-ghqy
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-ghpx
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-ghpu

Looks like 787-8 still operates on one YYZ-LHR and YUL-LHR but is also deployed to NRT routes and YVR-ZRH, and new routes such as YUL-CAI.

A lot of the European routes that used to be operated by Rouge are now operated with mainline 333s (BCN, LIS, VCE, MAN), 787-8 (EDI) or 77Ws (FCO, DUB, ATH).

If you can dig up the historical pdf schedules, you can probably look at how the fleet is deployed holistically.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 9:08 am
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Wouldn't shock me to find out that 788 deployment is as simple as "which routes have the weakest sales in J".
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Old Jul 26, 22, 9:21 am
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Originally Posted by YOWgary View Post
Wouldn't shock me to find out that 788 deployment is as simple as "which routes have the weakest sales in J".
That wouldn't make sense for LHR though?

I suspect it's more to do with what others have suggested: multiple frequencies to LHR + more new flights to vacation destinations means smaller planes for the LHR flights.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 9:56 am
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
A lot of the European routes that used to be operated by Rouge are now operated with mainline 333s (BCN, LIS, VCE, MAN), 787-8 (EDI) or 77Ws (FCO, DUB, ATH).
As an interesting data point, I have flown ATH-YYZ twice in the last year on 77W's - both times packed to the gills, including my most recent flight in late June on a slaveship. Lots of Americans both times.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 10:23 am
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Originally Posted by YOWgary View Post
Wouldn't shock me to find out that 788 deployment is as simple as "which routes have the weakest sales in J".
That's an interesting thought. I am supposed to be on a 788 YVR-DUB at the start of September and there are a good number of J seats left. I would also argue that it also likely that they have 8 788's and they have to put them somewhere. Cargo is certainly part of the equation which is likely why there are larger wide bodies going to South America. As mentioned, there is a ton of capacity going to Europe, with many flights already sold out. Should Asia start to come back, AC is going to begin to have a lift issue. The XLR's will certainly help, as will the 3 additional 789's, but there may be a need for more should demand continue to be strong. AC really continues to dominate international flying - it will be interesting to see what the summer schedule looks like in 2023.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 10:29 am
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Originally Posted by The Lev View Post
As an interesting data point, I have flown ATH-YYZ twice in the last year on 77W's - both times packed to the gills, including my most recent flight in late June on a slaveship. Lots of Americans both times.
It looks like AC is using the 450 seat 77w to ATH, which has same number of PY seats as number of J seats in Rouge 767, but the 777w holds additionally 24 J pods and 179 Y seats, so perhaps the high density means AC can make the route work combined with the stronger demand.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 10:31 am
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
It looks like AC is using the 450 seat 77w to ATH, which has same number of PY seats as number of J seats in Rouge 767, but the 777w holds additionally 24 J pods and 179 Y seats, so perhaps the high density means AC can make the route work combined with the stronger demand.
28 J, not 24. They have used the 77W to Athens in the past. Doubt there is trouble filling it at the moment.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 10:35 am
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Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi View Post
28 J, not 24. They have used the 77W to Athens in the past. Doubt there is trouble filling it at the moment.
I'm purposely comparing 24 PY seats in 77w with the 24 J seats in Rouge 767 as they are similar in terms of square footage and service and thus I assume should command similar revenue per seat.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 10:44 am
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Originally Posted by capedreamer View Post
multiple frequencies to LHR + more new flights to vacation destinations means smaller planes for the LHR flights.
That's exactly what I'm suggesting; YYZ-LHR is currently two 777s and a 788 per day. And, as EDMFlyBoi noted, those 788s have to go *somewhere*.


Originally Posted by The Lev View Post
my most recent flight in late June on a slaveship.
Long past time to retire that nickname.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 10:44 am
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Originally Posted by m.y View Post
I'm purposely comparing 24 PY seats in 77w with the 24 J seats in Rouge 767 as they are similar in terms of square footage and service and thus I assume should command similar revenue per seat.
That's fair, except your numbers are wrong.

The Rouge 767 was PY24 or PY18 and Y256
The Mainline low J 77W is J28 PY24 and Y450

The additional seats on a low J 77W are 28J and Y194 with an additional 6PY compare to some of the Rouge 67's. Rouge PY was never sold as J going internationally. If you are talking about an incremental addition of revenue on the flight then the difference is the addition of the 28J seats and 194Y seats.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 10:46 am
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Originally Posted by YOWgary View Post
That's exactly what I'm suggesting; YYZ-LHR is currently two 777s and a 788 per day. And, as EDMFlyBoi noted, those 788s have to go *somewhere*.
Looking back, I suspect AC probably would have ordered only 789's rather than split between 788's and 789's that they presently have.
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Old Jul 26, 22, 10:51 am
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Originally Posted by EdmFlyBoi View Post
The Mainline low J 77W is J28 PY24 and Y450
Not quite. the "high density" 77W has a mere 398 seats - the total capacity of the aircraft is 450 seats.
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...d/fleet.html#/
https://seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Ca...e_Class_v4.php
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