Stranger

I have seen the captain coming out. Also in one instnce when an FA threatened a J passenger with being removed, the captin came and talked to him.

These incidents have been way too many lately.

yulred

Just the latest variation in an age old tactic of throwing mud and seeing if it sticks.

Either there was a “crowd”. Or there wasn’t. In the absence of any evidence that there was a crowd, the onus is on whoever’s suggesting that there might have been a crowd, to back it up. The onus is on Stranger to prove that there may have been a crowd, not on the rest of us to prove that there wasn’t. They have yet to do that.

Simply conjuring up new variables to obfuscate / deflect … just serves to distract from the issue (regardless of the motive).

it’s why I astutely refuse to suggest that this was the result of alien mind control going awry. :P

Stranger

Who throws mud here?

I was merely giving the crew the benefit of the doubt. Until we hear more than one sided mud.

Have you been on a plane that either had an unscheduled stopover, or had to return to the gate because of unruly passengers? Have you read stories of crews beaten up by furious passengers who believe covid is a communist conspiracy? This is not a time to blame crews, even if they overreacted. Their job is not so easy these days.

yulred

I’d believe that too - except for a (very) recent incident where I did witness a captain come out and deal with a misbehaving pax. I was a bit annoyed by the unnecessary delay it caused (and I wouldn’t have complained if said pax was removed - they weren’t), but I saw and heard enough to walk away with the sense that at least some captains are willing to take charge and make a difficult call. Lots of respect for that captain - despite the delay. They are out there.

And no, I don’t know if there were any offenders. Which leaves us with the greatest riddle of them all - how is AC going to figure out who was wronged if it sticks to this “mask” story? Call passengers around them? Ask leading questions?

Stranger

AC is under no obligation to provide us with answers... Only to victims of any mistake.

yulred

We’ve seen this drill before. Conjure up random scenarios in the name of “balance” because one side speaks up while the other sticks to its line. People who are unconnected to the people who got booted have spoken up and the airline has admitted it may have made a mistake, but still we persist with manufactured facts about unruly crowds.

Have I been on flights that have to return to gate due to an unruly person? Of course I have - more than once. But it’s taken a long time of escalation to get to that point. I was in one of those situations very, very recently, where I watched the whole thing play out (ground staff, cabin crew, eventually the captain). There were a lot of people who wanted that individual off the plane. The captain spoke to them and decided otherwise. And we took on a fairly long delay because of it. And that was for one person. Throwing out 20+ without knowing who did what… that’s… quite something.

Which brings us back to the question: how is AC supposed to right it’s wrongs here when it’s effectively devolved into a “he said”/“she said” with unaffected pax quite vocally disagreeing with AC’s actions. Who’s going to decide which of those individuals was misbehaving and who wasn’t? The same lot who thought they were misbehaving in the first place?

Just pointing out the obvious flaws in your simplism. Using your logic, AC could end up generously compensating the most egregious offenders, and we’d just never know.

With a strong possibility that they themselves wouldn’t know.

Which just goes to demonstrate that being a little more deliberate with this Instead of taking off with removed pax’ cabin baggage might have been the smarter play,

commaspace

They screwed up initially, screwed up further by using the covid hall pass to justify, then half-baked apologized.

vernonc

At the very least 28-30 passengers are entitled to the $2400 (not sure of the exact amt) as per Canadian regulations for 24hr controllable delay. Plus additional costs like rebooked tickets, hotels, meals, baggage, lost wages, etc. And any other effects like stress, reputation, etc. So over $100K and thats assuming no one wants to go to court. I know $100K is a small amount for a large corp. Reputation damage is who knows what.
Elderly couple kicked off Air Canada flight ‘for no reason’ demand an explanation – and compensation (yahoo.com)

The Lev

If the crew over reacted, and even AC has tacitly admitted that they did, it is perfectly appropriate to lay blame where it belongs and not excuse it based on the stressful conditions.

Stranger

In private, sure. In public? Would you wnt your employer to do that sort of things?

Plus, as you say, actually, since AC already admitted they did, they already blames the crew...

NikinYOW

Respectfully, I disagree. When 20 unrelated people get removed from a plane and it appears most (or none) were not causing any disturbance or disobeying crew orders, I feel the public needs to hear from the airline. Not specific details of what happened or any discipline, but something in general terms to provide some reassurances to the public. Something along the lines of "we have done a full review and concluded a mistake was made (if that was the case), have addressed it with the staff involved, and connected with the affected passengers to make this right."

This would reassure me from a passenger perspective. What if it had been me. This is not just a small number causing a disturbance - it is a sizeable group and it could happen to any of us. Being removed simply by having seats in the wrong part of the aircraft or crew wanting to take something out on passengers is something none of us would want to experience. Not only the stress to deal with it, but also obligations or plans at destination (work or leisure) that would be disrupted?

yyznomad

But they work at the airport/for the airline.

Midships

Have a think about those three sentences. In the first you state what "might" have happened. In the second that "might" has turned into a "fact" that makes you conclude the crew were scared. (Yes pregnant women and retired couples can be scary). Finally having concluded that the crew were scared, you imply that the other posters on here would rather have the Air Canada crew beaten up than have handled this differently.

I curious, how much money are you willing to "bet" the crew were running scared?

Never.

BA Gold since 1994.

RNE

Never a return to the gate, but once it happened about to leave the gate.

I boarded a plane; the door had closed but the jetway hadn't pulled back yet. An FA was on the PA going though the safety spiel, then it abruptly stopped. Minutes passed. The airplane door was opened. So too the cockpit door. The FO came out. He talked to a passenger* who got up, grabbed a bag, and deplaned. I assumed the man had gotten word of something (via text or phone call, whatever) and needed permission to deplane. However, when the FA resumed her spiel, an ad lib (bolded) made me realized the passenger did not deplane willingly.

"In case of emergency, oxygen masks will drop down in front of you. Please pull the mask down toward your face and place the mask over your mouth and nose. If you are traveling with a child (or someone behaving like one) please attend to yourself first, then the child. Breathe normally, adjust the headband to suit yourself."


*I recognized the passenger as a player for one of the local pro teams. I won't name the player or the team.

hotturnip

Is there still no further news about this incident? In a summer of egregious behavior by airlines, this incident really stands out. I'd very much like to know what actually caused this (and if AC is going to make good to those passengers).