PaulYK

Agree entirely with this.

While there are occasions where for good reasons someone may need to be downgraded from J, in my view how this is being dealt with by Air Canada is a major customer relations error. Once a passenger has a confirmed J ticket, taking it away is really disappointing. You’re looking forward to a relaxing trip, whether for business or vacation and suddenly you are at the back of the plane (possibly) in a middle seat. Not to mention the upset for everyone when a couple or family are split up. It ruins the experience for everyone. And especially as any compensation offered is minimal (if anything).

Happened to someone I know recently (35K status), who had a confirmed Latitude eupgrade to J taken away on their second flight from YYC-YUL, while on their first connecting flight. They noticed a seat change, no one advised them. They weren’t even moved to PY, but had to argue for a PY eupgrade and wait until all other PY eupgrades had cleared at the gate, despite the fact that they would have been able to immediately upgrade to PY with their Latitude fare when it was purchased and there were quite a few empty seats in PY. No compensation or apology of any kind was provided and no offer was made to switch to another flight with J seats available.

When there is a need for a downgrade, which again I appreciate can happen for many good (and maybe some not good) reasons, I think Air Canada could do a better customer relations job by proactively offering a switch to another flight with J seats available, and if that isn’t possible or the passenger needs to take the downgraded flight, by providing generous compensation for the disappointment and ensuring a downgrade from J is to PY (where available). I think they would actually gain from doing so, as passengers would be less tempted to switch to another airline or to just fly less. Passengers using eupgrades and points to upgrade to J are the same passengers who will pay more to fly Air Canada over other airlines to get higher status and pay J fares when they are at what they consider a “reasonable” price point. But only if it is worth it.

annehamnitz

I know that AC policy is that they can dump passengers from confirmed upgrades (a latitude flight pass upgrade, confirmed more than a month before travel, no issues with upgrade on check in day prior), but it does really make me question my travel choices.

If Air Canada wants loyalty, they can try at minimum being nice about it
Then they cancelled my connecting flight.

Stranger

But his wife does not apparently. So she was the lucky winner...


Air Canada does not normally overbook the J cabin.

However, if a deadheading pilot, who qualifies for positive J space as per union agreement, shows up when the cabin is full, or if say there is an equipment change, or if a seat turns out to be inop, then something got to give.

Happened to me once, following an equipment change, latitude with confirmed upgrade. 789 replaced by 788. Only upgraded pax. I ended up catching a train from MXP to FCO and flew in J the following day.

To add insult to injury, while they changed the equipment maybe three days earlier, they only informed me the night before when already at the airport. Too late for changing my plans in an organized way and switching to FCO on the same day, which I could easily have done. Plus, the people who called me made noeffort to be nice of to help me find an alternative solution. OTOH the concierge in Rome was quite apologetic.

InTheAirGuy

This is where creating an alert on an aircraft change on Expertflyer is invaluable.

canadiancow

Or https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...-notifier.html

Drob1

This is true, my wife does not have aeroplan.
There was no equipment change however, as when I booked 3 months ago it was on a 737 max 8 and all seats in J were functional and working during the flight.

With all these complex scheduling's in place could they not figure out ahead of time there was going to be a pilot needing a ride back and keep a seat empty. There were still 3 spots in J a week before the flight. Worst case someone gets an upgrade if something changes.

How would you know that you were the only upgraded passenger out of curiosity?

stevendorechester

It seems that we are seeing more and more of these cases of passengers being downgraded so that staff members can fly in business class.

While this may be needed in some cases there needs to be better protection for paying customers. In cases like this the law should prohibite involuntarily downgrades notwithstanding any contact between staff members and their employer.

No problems with any staff member sitting in a premium cabin but the airline should be required to ask for volunteers. Offer enough and someone will bite.

Stranger

They told me. I suppose explaining me why they picked the most likely highest status passenger to be downgraded...

(In your wife case, most likely there was a deadheading captain.)

Cozmo456

Pilots have J per contract and a certain seniority. You will see a lot of them in the back lately. There was a point at which the contract changed and the newer pilots are no longer entitled.

This is from a pilot who sat beside me in Y on YUL-YYZ (which I never upgrade unless it is a continuation)

canadiancow

Deadheading mainline pilots are guaranteed J. It used to just be captains, but the most recent contract expanded it.
Commuting mainline pilots, AFAIK, are not even entitled to J. Maybe a really old contract grandfathered some of them in?

Express pilots (captains?) hired before a certain date have the same deadhead rules. New ones are never entitled to J.

Adam Smith

Commuting pilots are just using their staff travel privileges, and can't bump anyone. They might be able to use some of their passes to confirm space in advance rather than be on standby, but they don't get to bump a paying customer from a seat, not in J, not in Y. Commuting staff (whether pilots or cabin crew) are those who choose to live somewhere other than their contractual base, and it's their responsibility to make their own way to their base for the start of a pairing. That can sometimes result in paying out of pocket for revenue tickets if SBY is looking dicey.

Deadheads are those making their way to and from assignments by the airline, where the airline elected to begin or end a pairing not at their home base. If a pilot was deadheading CUN-YVR, presumably he had operated a flight to CUN, but was not needed for a return.

In the case of the OP, I'm puzzled as to why this happened. CUN is not far enough away from any place whence AC flies to it that it needs a relief pilot, and even if the pilots have to overnight there rather than flying straight back, there shouldn't be any need for a deadhead, unless it were the last flight of the season or something like that.

​​​​​​Perhaps a case of a pilot becoming ill or otherwise unable to fly, having been replaced by someone who deadheaded down on a previous day, now deadheading home, or something along those lines. A situation like that would also explain why crew sched had not blocked off a seat farther in advance and allowed RM to fill the cabin.

VoodooYYC

This is the most likely case, and in fact, I'd be willing to bet the pilot who bumped the OP's wife was the one who was sick, and had to be replaced on an earlier flight. AC sent down another pilot, and now is bringing this one back home after his illness. It's the logical conclusion given the flight was departing from CUN.

RangerNS

My money is on "Sure, I'll come off PTO early if you fly me home in J"

Stranger

I had actually noticed the aircraft change. But I was unaware that J was oversold as a result. Would they have let me know at that point, I could easily have switched from MXP to FCO. Actually coming from somewhere in between.

Drob1

I received a reply this morning that wasn't terribly enlightening. No idea if the compensation is fair or not, although from what I've read it's take it or leave it with AC.

Thank you for contacting us about your flight to Vancouver on May 21, 2022.

I hope you and your family are healthy and doing well.

We appreciate you taking the time to write to us about the crew member traveling in the Business Class Cabin on your recent flight to Vancouver. I can understand why you wondered about this, and why this was upsetting for you, so I would be glad to explain. Pilots often have to fly for work-related travel, so they can reposition for their next assignment. To ensure they reach their assignment alert, rested and ready to perform their duties, they are entitled by their contracts to travel in the Business Class Cabin.

We expect our airport agents to take care of our customers' needs in a courteous, and factual manner. We apologize if there was any miscommunication during your interaction with our agent in Cancun. Please let me assure you that we have shared your comments with the Airport Management team for their review.
In any event we do wish to offer our sincere apologies and as a gesture of goodwill for your wife's downgrade we wish to offer her a $350.00 CAD eCoupon and 2,500 Aeroplan bonus points. Please see below this email for redemption instructions.

As well, I will be sending Mrs. *****'s ticket to our refunds team to calculate a partial refund on that portion of your ticket that was downgraded from Cancun to Vancouver. Once processed they will email you confirmation of the refund amount.

We hope you will allow us a future opportunity to welcome you on board again with a more pleasant travel experience.