Unable to Cancel Prior to Departure Due to Lack of Service/Response - Now What?
Jan 11, 2022, 2:21 pm
#16
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Last edited by Adam Smith; Jan 26, 2022 at 6:15 pm Reason: Corrected typo
Jan 11, 2022, 3:55 pm
#17
formerly known as DeltaNYC
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Has anyone NOT been able to cancel an aeroplan award on the website? Flight changes are not possible I get it, but I've always been able to cancel an aeroplan booking online.
Jan 11, 2022, 3:59 pm
#18
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Yes, on Saturday. Shortly after they closed. I had to call in on Sunday. If the flight had been within 6.5 hours, I would have been in trouble.
Jan 11, 2022, 5:36 pm
#19
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YQR
Posts: 2,741
@luv2ctheworld,
That being said, I don't necessarily agree that you should get a refund. We're in one of the worst phases of the pandemic when it comes to impact on travel, and many of us have spent far more than an hour on hold trying to cancel tickets so that we didn't end up in this situation. Many of us have gotten up early, stayed up late, ducked out of meetings, whatever, to get that done. Plenty of us have waited an hour or more to change a ticket before the pandemic. Yes, it sucks, and if the online cancellation had just worked properly (which it should), you wouldn't have been in this mess. But you ultimately made the choice not to invest the time in getting the ticket cancelled, and the consequence may be forfeiting the points.
That being said, I don't necessarily agree that you should get a refund. We're in one of the worst phases of the pandemic when it comes to impact on travel, and many of us have spent far more than an hour on hold trying to cancel tickets so that we didn't end up in this situation. Many of us have gotten up early, stayed up late, ducked out of meetings, whatever, to get that done. Plenty of us have waited an hour or more to change a ticket before the pandemic. Yes, it sucks, and if the online cancellation had just worked properly (which it should), you wouldn't have been in this mess. But you ultimately made the choice not to invest the time in getting the ticket cancelled, and the consequence may be forfeiting the points.
For myself, I am generally fatalistic about travel these days figuring that pretty much anything could go awry at any time and that is because of the times we live in. It doesn't help to get angry--even when it might be entirely reasonable--and it is just a fact of life right now that my travel may result in me losing money or points, or whatever. Rightly or wrongly I am trying my best to just enjoy what I am able to do when I am able to it.
Last edited by Adam Smith; Jan 26, 2022 at 6:10 pm Reason: Fixed quote
Jan 26, 2022, 5:43 pm
#20
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@luv2ctheworld, sorry to hear about your crappy experience.
I think the point that @expert7700 was trying to make - and let's remember, surely we should be united against the common enemy... the Judean People's Front! Or, AC... - is that, regardless of whether you had a good reason, by not cancelling your ticket, you've no-showed, and technically, under the terms of the tariff, have forfeited what you paid for it.
To get your points back*, you are dependent on either (a) a goodwill gesture from AC or (b) legal action. I'm not on Twitter, so I won't comment on the efficacy of that method of support. What I would suggest you consider is going to the customer service web form and submitting a request for a refund. State your case and timeline clearly and concisely - you tried cancelling online but couldn't, you attempted to cancel your ticket on X occasions, you DMed them on Twitter at these dates and times, you tried calling in and waiting on hold for so many minutes at those times (you should keep documentation of this). Don't turn it in to a long rant about how AC is a terrible airline and how badly they treat their customers and how you'll never fly them again. Not to say you can't point out that their customer service standards are unacceptable - you should, as it's important to your argument - just that you're more likely to have success with a respectful and direct approach than a rant. But the bottom line would be to request that they refund because their customer service failures made it impossible to cancel the ticket - using a reasonable amount of effort - before departure.
That being said, I don't necessarily agree that you should get a refund. We're in one of the worst phases of the pandemic when it comes to impact on travel, and many of us have spent far more than an hour on hold trying to cancel tickets so that we didn't end up in this situation. Many of us have gotten up early, stayed up late, ducked out of meetings, whatever, to get that done. Plenty of us have waited an hour or more to change a ticket before the pandemic. Yes, it sucks, and if the online cancellation had just worked properly (which it should), you wouldn't have been in this mess. But you ultimately made the choice not to invest the time in getting the ticket cancelled, and the consequence may be forfeiting the points.
If AC doesn't refund you as a goodwill gesture, I have no idea what your likelihood of success is in pursuing any kind of legal action.
I wish you luck in your battle, and hope you'll keep us up to date on the process and the outcome.
*Even though you no-showed the ticket, you may still be entitled to a refund of some of the cash fees/taxes that you paid
I think the point that @expert7700 was trying to make - and let's remember, surely we should be united against the common enemy... the Judean People's Front! Or, AC... - is that, regardless of whether you had a good reason, by not cancelling your ticket, you've no-showed, and technically, under the terms of the tariff, have forfeited what you paid for it.
To get your points back*, you are dependent on either (a) a goodwill gesture from AC or (b) legal action. I'm not on Twitter, so I won't comment on the efficacy of that method of support. What I would suggest you consider is going to the customer service web form and submitting a request for a refund. State your case and timeline clearly and concisely - you tried cancelling online but couldn't, you attempted to cancel your ticket on X occasions, you DMed them on Twitter at these dates and times, you tried calling in and waiting on hold for so many minutes at those times (you should keep documentation of this). Don't turn it in to a long rant about how AC is a terrible airline and how badly they treat their customers and how you'll never fly them again. Not to say you can't point out that their customer service standards are unacceptable - you should, as it's important to your argument - just that you're more likely to have success with a respectful and direct approach than a rant. But the bottom line would be to request that they refund because their customer service failures made it impossible to cancel the ticket - using a reasonable amount of effort - before departure.
That being said, I don't necessarily agree that you should get a refund. We're in one of the worst phases of the pandemic when it comes to impact on travel, and many of us have spent far more than an hour on hold trying to cancel tickets so that we didn't end up in this situation. Many of us have gotten up early, stayed up late, ducked out of meetings, whatever, to get that done. Plenty of us have waited an hour or more to change a ticket before the pandemic. Yes, it sucks, and if the online cancellation had just worked properly (which it should), you wouldn't have been in this mess. But you ultimately made the choice not to invest the time in getting the ticket cancelled, and the consequence may be forfeiting the points.
If AC doesn't refund you as a goodwill gesture, I have no idea what your likelihood of success is in pursuing any kind of legal action.
I wish you luck in your battle, and hope you'll keep us up to date on the process and the outcome.
*Even though you no-showed the ticket, you may still be entitled to a refund of some of the cash fees/taxes that you paid
I wonder, though, if we are expected to cut AC slack because of the difficult and uncertain times we exist in that they too could cut us some slack if their systems don't work as we would hope and as would be reasonable?
For myself, I am generally fatalistic about travel these days figuring that pretty much anything could go awry at any time and that is because of the times we live in. It doesn't help to get angry--even when it might be entirely reasonable--and it is just a fact of life right now that my travel may result in me losing money or points, or whatever. Rightly or wrongly I am trying my best to just enjoy what I am able to do when I am able to it.
For myself, I am generally fatalistic about travel these days figuring that pretty much anything could go awry at any time and that is because of the times we live in. It doesn't help to get angry--even when it might be entirely reasonable--and it is just a fact of life right now that my travel may result in me losing money or points, or whatever. Rightly or wrongly I am trying my best to just enjoy what I am able to do when I am able to it.
Last edited by Adam Smith; Jan 26, 2022 at 6:12 pm Reason: Fixed quote
Jan 26, 2022, 6:36 pm
#21
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: AC75 MM
Posts: 959
I'm with the OP on this.
It will be interesting to see what happens if it gets to a small claims court.
What AC is been doing, for years, not just with Covid, is, IMHO inexcusable
My on-line investment bank has a banner that the average wait time for a phone pick up is 18 seconds, now that's where we should be!
It will be interesting to see what happens if it gets to a small claims court.
What AC is been doing, for years, not just with Covid, is, IMHO inexcusable
My on-line investment bank has a banner that the average wait time for a phone pick up is 18 seconds, now that's where we should be!
Jan 26, 2022, 7:03 pm
#22
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YQR
Posts: 2,741
There's no anger; not sure where anything I've written indicates anger. The point of the original question is to find a way to proceed in getting a refund for a failure of service on AC's part, despite all reasonable efforts by the customer. I made the effort, on 3 separate occasions, worth almost 5 hours worth of hold time, while in a foreign country, sitting on the floor, in between various activities that required my presence. It is not realistic for a customer to go through all those hoops, just to contact an agent when they don't respond to other forms of communications, yet tell you that's the way to reach them.
Jan 26, 2022, 7:15 pm
#23
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My point is simply, if the customer has tried the website, called, emailed, Tweeted, and still cannot connect to a representative in a reasonable amount of time (1.5 hours on hold, while in a foreign country with other priorities), why should the customer bear the brunt of the failures of AC customer service? Especially when efforts were made 2 days prior? There was plenty of opportunity for someone at AC, with a workforce of hundreds, to address an email or tweet. When AC refused to refund customers' money during the initial phase of the lockdown, was that considered acceptable?
The issue is that I made all reasonable efforts to contact AC (see above) to cancel the ticket; and their inability to provide service is the cause of the no-show. The company has the obligation to have acceptable means of communicating with them. If they can't answer 3 attempted calls at 1.5 hr hold times, multiple attempts on Twitter, as well as email, then the failure is on them, not the customer for no-showing, as the customer tried more than 48 hours prior to departure to request the cancelation. It reeks of victim-blaming when one says that you should have to miss meetings, forego sleep, miss your child's birth, etc. just so one can get a hold of a representative to do something that should have been available online.
The issue is that I made all reasonable efforts to contact AC (see above) to cancel the ticket; and their inability to provide service is the cause of the no-show. The company has the obligation to have acceptable means of communicating with them. If they can't answer 3 attempted calls at 1.5 hr hold times, multiple attempts on Twitter, as well as email, then the failure is on them, not the customer for no-showing, as the customer tried more than 48 hours prior to departure to request the cancelation. It reeks of victim-blaming when one says that you should have to miss meetings, forego sleep, miss your child's birth, etc. just so one can get a hold of a representative to do something that should have been available online.
The facts are:
- AC gives you until 2 hours before departure to cancel a ticket
- You did not cancel the ticket by the deadline
Beyond that, this is subjective. You've decided that you made all reasonable efforts. Someone disagreeing with you is not blaming the victim, they're taking a different position on an issue that doesn't have a definitive answer.
You came here looking for advice on how to handle your situation. The first thing you need to understand is that, while you feel this is clear-cut, there's no tariff provision, law, regulation, or court precedent that supports your position. If you take AC to the CTA or sue them and get a decision in your favour, perhaps you can establish one.
But we're in a bad phase of the worst pandemic in over 100 years, and a lot of businesses have hard a hard time operating recently. The CTA has also been ludicrously pro-airline throughout the pandemic, so you may not get a very sympathetic ear there.
You've been given suggestions as to how to proceed. But no one here can tell you if you do [x], AC will definitely provide you a refund.
AC could certainly win some brownie points by giving people flexibility, for instance giving people a certain amount of time post-travel to use their credit towards a different trip, even if they no-showed. AZ did that in the early days of the pandemic. But they haven't.
Jan 26, 2022, 9:19 pm
#24
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Adam Smith I think that the OP indicated pretty well that they went way beyond "all reasonable efforts". What more could they have done beyond trying the website, phone lines, social. What else could have been considered reasonable?
Jan 26, 2022, 10:10 pm
#26
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Adam Smith I think that the OP indicated pretty well that they went way beyond "all reasonable efforts". What more could they have done beyond trying the website, phone lines, social. What else could have been considered reasonable?
It's not like AC, or most other airlines, pick up the phone instantly at the best of times. I know people who've spent 4+ hours on hold to get through to AA and WS in the past couple of months (seriously, go check out the WS forum, it's insane over there).
In that context, is 1.5 hours a lot? I don't think so. But there's no clear standard.
Jan 26, 2022, 11:21 pm
#27
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My experiences don't match the OPs, since I'm a super elite with AC, but I've been successful in getting refunds for tickets I missed when CS drops the ball, I just write to the concierge email and the refund is usually processed within 24 hours.
Recently I tried to take a flight with AC, but it was so delayed that by the time it was actually going to leave I didn't need to travel anymore. I tried to find an AC rep to let them know I was leaving the airport and to offload me and my companion, but there was a long lineup. Once I got off hold (15 mins) the concierge line was more than happy to refund me. This happened when the flight was boarding.
I've also received a refund from AA customer relations as a no status PAX, but I didn't miss the flight...they just didn't apply a credit they promised to. I flew the itin, wrote in, and received the refund within a week or two. This was during the pandemic.
Before the pandemic I've tried calling into UA at T-60 to cancel, but wasn't able to get through quickly. So I tweeted them and I had my refund processed within 24 hours.
I think the OP has made a reasonable enough effort, as they requested to cancel in writing prior to T-2hrs. AC could provide better customer service, but 2 hour hold times are acceptable to their executive team even without the pandemic.
Recently I tried to take a flight with AC, but it was so delayed that by the time it was actually going to leave I didn't need to travel anymore. I tried to find an AC rep to let them know I was leaving the airport and to offload me and my companion, but there was a long lineup. Once I got off hold (15 mins) the concierge line was more than happy to refund me. This happened when the flight was boarding.
I've also received a refund from AA customer relations as a no status PAX, but I didn't miss the flight...they just didn't apply a credit they promised to. I flew the itin, wrote in, and received the refund within a week or two. This was during the pandemic.
Before the pandemic I've tried calling into UA at T-60 to cancel, but wasn't able to get through quickly. So I tweeted them and I had my refund processed within 24 hours.
I think the OP has made a reasonable enough effort, as they requested to cancel in writing prior to T-2hrs. AC could provide better customer service, but 2 hour hold times are acceptable to their executive team even without the pandemic.
Last edited by Nitehawk; Jan 26, 2022 at 11:27 pm
Jan 27, 2022, 2:42 am
#29
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AC clearly has customer service issues and a broken website lacking basic features that if implemented would improve call wait times. I would have waited on hold longer (even without status), but the OP did not. Until the OP actually writes customer service requesting a retroactive refund and we get a response I am not sure there is anything to talk about. AC either recovers by coming through or the OP can try an uphill legal battle. I expect customer service will fix it given the visible attempts of contact, but am perhaps naive.