canadiancow

I tried to find a good thread for this, but there isn't anything recent discussing sixth freedom bookings, nor does this really have anything to do with COVID (as schedule changes have always and will always be issues).

Many months ago, a friend wanted to go to BCN with his mom for Christmas. They paid for J.

SFO-BCN on the outbound, BCN-SFO for the friend / BCN-CMH for the mom on the return.

AC was one stop, UA was also one stop. The friend (who is UA*G) had previous good experiences on AC, so he opted to go with AC.

A few schedule changes later, and their outbounds are:
SFO-YYZ-ZRH-BCN / SFO-YUL-FRA-BCN
Their returns are:
BCN-ZRH-YYZ-SFO / BCN-ZRH-YYZ-IAD-CMH

So the mom's one-stop became a three-stop. Yuck.

However, AC will not change the over-water segment to non-AC. I've escalated this, tried to get a JV airline, anything. But they won't do it.

BCN-EWR-CMH and BCN-EWR-SFO both exist. But they won't do it.

And because AC no longer flies to BCN, it's impossible to get this down to even a two-stop (for CMH) without overnighting elsewhere in Europe. Stopping in Europe on the same day means they arrive in YYZ too late for the CMH flight.

I don't even understand their logic here. They found a relatively loyal UA FF who pays for J, but wanted to fly AC (and, to be honest, still wants to fly AC, just not on this routing). And he is no longer willing to book AC to other continents, because the wrong schedule change will force an extra connection or two.

If he'd picked UA, I'm sure there would have been many schedule changes, but at the end of the day, they'd either be on SFO-EWR-BCN or SFO-FRA-BCN, and something similar for the return (likely EWR so they could stay together for the first segment).

Instead, they're likely going to go with:
SFO-YYZ-ZRH-BCN
BCN-FRA / overnight / FRA-YYZ-SFO/CMH (this one because they'd rather spend 20 hours in FRA than do a triple-connection)

AC can talk about the seamless transit experience all they want, but if they're unwilling to book on even JV airlines when they have a massive schedule change (and for an airport like CMH, it wouldn't take much of a change to break that connection), then what's the point? Just stick with UA.

sydneyracquelle

With covid I would never add an additional country in transit. Too much hassle and risk with rules and schedules changing all the time. Lesson learned.

24left

Interesting situation for your friend and his mom....and that you tried to escalate on their behalf.

We know a few years back, in the previous era at AC, they made a determined effort to lure (ok, invite, encourage) all manner of Americans to fly AC via YVR, YYZ and even YUL. We know from threads and some rants on this forum, that many fares on these routes were significantly cheaper ex-USA on AC.

On my various TPACs, I used to meet an interesting assortment of Americans whose travel originated in places like IND, CLT and BOS as well as SEA and PDX - both of which actually have (or had) pretty decent TPAC routes. As they were all in J, I asked them why they were flying AC and they said it was the cheapest or the best deal. Some mentioned "seamless connection". A few also said flying AC allowed them to avoid large U.S. airports as well as driving long distances, staying overnight etc).

That was all in the Before Times and when flight options were more plentiful and flights didn't get cancelled at anywhere near the rate they've been for the past 1.5 years. Even now on domestic flights, almost every one of my PNRs since Dec 1 2020 has a cancelled flight, or a change of aircraft or even just a time change.

As for Americans or others who opt to fly AC via Canada, those on FT might take the time to learn about the issues as you described. But those not on FT or other travel sites where this topic may be discussed, will not know the potential risks until they are already in the middle of a mess similar to the example you provided. And not all will have the knowledge or resources to sort it out.
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RangerNS

Is this an AC thing, a "from the US" thing, or 6th freedom thing that could happen with any carrier and geo?

As we all know, scheduling and routing is not guaranteed. Do the EU regs even protect against this (going the other way across an ocean?).

There should be better recourse to cover the marketed offer (and "one stop in Toronto and the SSL" was the offer here, even if via a friendly FF).

Is the AC denial to change the ocean hop based on some long established industry rule?

canadiancow

It's an AC policy, so it would not affect other airlines, unless they have the same policy.

SS wasn't open when this was booked, and it's not open now, nor is that really a concern. Just the number of connections and overall travel time.
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expert7700

I think AC's agents are pinching pennies... Or overzealously applying a fare rule to irops that said the over-water segment must be operated by AC.

The irony in your friends case is there is significant chance of irops/misconnect and EC261 compensation with a triple connect.

Agree that I've heard other airlines (and Aeroplan) switch this, at least within their own alliance with very little trouble. When they want to.
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canadiancow

For reference, their most up to date TA schedule change policy (https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...KCH_EN_V16.pdf) says "for Transatlantic, Transpacific and South America, the order of protection for using other carriers is only as last option, if no AC over-the-water flights are available"

I could argue there are no AC over-the-water flights available from BCN, but I'm not really keen on spending hours on the phone.

YOWgary

It's not a question of "overzealous". As Cow pointed out, the rules are written in such a way that only an agent with a LOT of experience, and a bunch of confidence, *and* a desire to stick their neck out for a customer, would even attempt to move the passenger off of AC metal when there are half a dozen TATL flights going out every night even at reduced operating levels.

Until that's changed to "no other reasonable and timely AC OTW flights are available", *and* agents are specifically and firmly empowered to rebook accordingly, this won't change.

One other note - Cow, as usual your knowledge of fine details is top-shelf and then some, but when you write these useful posts up I encourage you to keep our less-experienced guests in mind. Lots of the same people who would benefit most from this warning, won't have any idea what a "sixth-freedom" flight is.

This would actually be a terrific blog post for you to flesh out in more detail, I think a lot of people (and inexperienced travellers in particular) beyond FT would benefit from this information.

canadiancow

Noted.

Saying "it's in the works" would suggest it's further along than it is, but ... yes, it's happening. If only I could get one of the bigger ones to take the article

YOWgary

Well, if you can't get one of the good ones to take it, I'd be happy to host...

24left

I'll assume some people might see this and determine either the price or the routings work for them. They just might now know issues may arise.

(BTW, I looked at different dates on GF and found routing options also included AC via YYZ, as well as LX, LH on different aircraft)

Airfare of the Day [Business Class] AIR CANADA Barcelona to San Francisco from 1,232€

https://loyaltylobby.com/2021/11/06/...co-from-1232e/
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keitherson

Considering UA OK'ed rerouted me on the island hopper and even offered ANA for a schedule change, when I have zero status on UA, I agree that AC customer service is worse than that of UA now. Not to mention the refund policies still in place.

canadiancow

I also had a great UA reroute during COVID, onto a non-JV airline.

Adam Smith

@canadiancow, is this really a US-specific problem? It seems to me like this would apply to all 6th freedom itineraries booked with AC, e.g. MEX-YYZ-BCN or NRT-YYZ-GRU would presumably suffer from the same problems in the event of SKCH, no? Seems to me like perhaps it's a problem with 6th freedom itineraries ticketed by AC.

Also, interesting that V16 of that SKCH file is the most up to date, considering there's also a V27 updated March 1.

canadiancow

Hmm...

Yes, I think you're right.

Though AFAIK they don't market themselves in that way to anyone outside the US. Most of their foreign ads I've seen are "Come visit Toronto!", not "Connect through Toronto".

Yeah, and 16 actually isn't the latest. It's... v19 or something. But it's the same.