Goodbye/Bon Voyage to Air Canada
Feb 7, 2019, 2:13 pm
#31
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: YYZ / LHR
Programs: AC SE100k
Posts: 262
I don't understand why people are blaming the OP for only checking the bag to YYZ. Assuming that the gate-checked baggage tag is written by hand, that seems like a very sensible thing to do, as it would take more human intervention (which is usually a bad thing at AC) to facilitate the bag being transferred to YVR upon arrival at YYZ as it would lack a bar code. If the baggage handlers couldn't take the bag off the plane and put it on the right carousel at YYZ, I'm really sceptical that they would have handled the connection to YVR properly. That bag was effectively lost as soon as it left the OP's hand in RSW, regardless of what was written on that baggage tag; they could have handwritten "Valhalla" as the destination and it still probably would have ended up in YXY.
Unlike many here, it seems, I totally respect the OP for their choice to vote with their feet. I did something similar last year when I bailed from BA to AC (I would have no status on BA at all this year if they didn't have a soft-landing system for status). Cost cutting taken to an extreme has made BA, once an excellent airline to fly with, a poor value proposition flying YYZ-LHR given the fact that pricing on AC & BA tend to be identical on this route. Choosing to take our business elsewhere is really the only recourse we have against poor treatment by large airlines; unfortunately in Canada the lack of significant competition makes it much more difficult to do. I'm lucky that most of my travel is TATL where there is competition from foreign airlines who also fly non-stop on several routes.
Unlike many here, it seems, I totally respect the OP for their choice to vote with their feet. I did something similar last year when I bailed from BA to AC (I would have no status on BA at all this year if they didn't have a soft-landing system for status). Cost cutting taken to an extreme has made BA, once an excellent airline to fly with, a poor value proposition flying YYZ-LHR given the fact that pricing on AC & BA tend to be identical on this route. Choosing to take our business elsewhere is really the only recourse we have against poor treatment by large airlines; unfortunately in Canada the lack of significant competition makes it much more difficult to do. I'm lucky that most of my travel is TATL where there is competition from foreign airlines who also fly non-stop on several routes.
Feb 7, 2019, 2:15 pm
#32
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,428
Not sure that i agree, I believe this bag would fit sideways in the bins on the sides of the planes, obviously not in the middle on a 767. The main reason is that there was no space, not that it did not fit.
Feb 7, 2019, 2:29 pm
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
https://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/...ir%20Lines.htm
They don't even have enough widebody frames on order to replace the 79.
Feb 7, 2019, 2:32 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
Slightly OT. I find this thread interesting. Not because AC did something wrong (I totally agree that the baggage issue was mis-handled, no pun intended), but because this is an example of something I've noticed in my years reading/posting here; about how people's pre-conceptions/biases can affect their reinforce their overall perception of the situation.
Take, for example, the state of the aircraft.
Today's flight AC104 is operated by FIN 453 (C-GIUB). This aircraft is 17.3 years old according to https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a321-1623.htm. The aircraft's interior would have been installed sometime 2006-2008 when the AC mainline aircraft received the "XM" make-overs.
AC has been transferring 763's from the mainline fleet to rouge. IIRC they are transferring the "younger" aircraft and retiring the older aircraft. I don't know what aircraft you were on, but many of the 763's are younger than the Airbus the OP flew on AC 104. Based on the bin description, it is likely that the 763 airframe is older than the 321 airframe, however based on an average age of 21.6 years, the 763 airplane likely wasn't "significantly" older than the airbus. In addition, rouge launched July 1, 2013. All aircraft that transferred to rouge got brand new (IIRC slimline) seats, so the oldest seats in the rouge fleet would be just over 5 years old. Of course, the rouge seats don't have AVOD like mainline.
I totally understand OP's frustration; delayed baggage in such a circumstance is unacceptable. I just find it interesting how the perception is different for the different aircraft, when both aircraft likely aren't significantly different in age. The aircraft with the newer seats is referred to as "museum-quality unrestored" and the aircraft with the older interior is referred to as "modern."
Of course, YMMV.
Take, for example, the state of the aircraft.
The original 763 design does have somewhat small bins in the middle section of the aircraft but a slightly oversized bag should have fit in the bins along the side of the aircraft. I'm assuming you arrived later in the boarding process and those were filled. These were standard-issue bins for the 763 up until they did a cabin design refresh. I suspect you'd have exactly the same issue on one of DL's 763's. They average almost exactly the same age - 21.6 years for ACr and 21.4 years for DL.
I totally understand OP's frustration; delayed baggage in such a circumstance is unacceptable. I just find it interesting how the perception is different for the different aircraft, when both aircraft likely aren't significantly different in age. The aircraft with the newer seats is referred to as "museum-quality unrestored" and the aircraft with the older interior is referred to as "modern."
Of course, YMMV.
Feb 7, 2019, 2:33 pm
#35
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,570
OP decided to short check his non-fitting bag because he remembered trouble connecting a generation ago. Had he not, all would have been good.
Don't mess with the system and complain.
Feb 7, 2019, 3:00 pm
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: FL
Programs: DL, UA, AA, AS, Hilton, Marriott, Avis
Posts: 37
Surprising that they could not accommodate the carry-on given the passenger was flying up-front. Not being on that flight, I would hazard a guess that some of the J bin space was crew bags. As was any space in the coat cabin though I am not even sure if a Rouge flight has a coat cabin.
Gate checking a bag on the plane is risky - I have seen FA's scribble seat numbers on paper and stick the offending bag out the front door. If that paper disappears or is incorrect, that bag is heading somewhere else which may be what happened here.
Gate checking a bag on the plane is risky - I have seen FA's scribble seat numbers on paper and stick the offending bag out the front door. If that paper disappears or is incorrect, that bag is heading somewhere else which may be what happened here.
6 abreast J class seating, with only two of four bins above above each able to accept an IATA-legal carryon, and sideways, at that. I would imagine I am neither the first, nor the last, to be underwhelmed by North America’s Leading Air Carrier(R).
BUT, Kawhi Leonard has standup headroom at seats C, E, F, & H! And AC squeezes a few more bucks out of a long depreciated asset, with minimal capital outlay.
Feb 7, 2019, 3:08 pm
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: FL
Programs: DL, UA, AA, AS, Hilton, Marriott, Avis
Posts: 37
Slightly OT. I find this thread interesting. Not because AC did something wrong (I totally agree that the baggage issue was mis-handled, no pun intended), but because this is an example of something I've noticed in my years reading/posting here; about how people's pre-conceptions/biases can affect their reinforce their overall perception of the situation.
Take, for example, the state of the aircraft.
Today's flight AC104 is operated by FIN 453 (C-GIUB). This aircraft is 17.3 years old according to https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a321-1623.htm. The aircraft's interior would have been installed sometime 2006-2008 when the AC mainline aircraft received the "XM" make-overs.
AC has been transferring 763's from the mainline fleet to rouge. IIRC they are transferring the "younger" aircraft and retiring the older aircraft. I don't know what aircraft you were on, but many of the 763's are younger than the Airbus the OP flew on AC 104. Based on the bin description, it is likely that the 763 airframe is older than the 321 airframe, however based on an average age of 21.6 years, the 763 airplane likely wasn't "significantly" older than the airbus. In addition, rouge launched July 1, 2013. All aircraft that transferred to rouge got brand new (IIRC slimline) seats, so the oldest seats in the rouge fleet would be just over 5 years old. Of course, the rouge seats don't have AVOD like mainline.
I totally understand OP's frustration; delayed baggage in such a circumstance is unacceptable. I just find it interesting how the perception is different for the different aircraft, when both aircraft likely aren't significantly different in age. The aircraft with the newer seats is referred to as "museum-quality unrestored" and the aircraft with the older interior is referred to as "modern."
Of course, YMMV.
Take, for example, the state of the aircraft.
Today's flight AC104 is operated by FIN 453 (C-GIUB). This aircraft is 17.3 years old according to https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a321-1623.htm. The aircraft's interior would have been installed sometime 2006-2008 when the AC mainline aircraft received the "XM" make-overs.
AC has been transferring 763's from the mainline fleet to rouge. IIRC they are transferring the "younger" aircraft and retiring the older aircraft. I don't know what aircraft you were on, but many of the 763's are younger than the Airbus the OP flew on AC 104. Based on the bin description, it is likely that the 763 airframe is older than the 321 airframe, however based on an average age of 21.6 years, the 763 airplane likely wasn't "significantly" older than the airbus. In addition, rouge launched July 1, 2013. All aircraft that transferred to rouge got brand new (IIRC slimline) seats, so the oldest seats in the rouge fleet would be just over 5 years old. Of course, the rouge seats don't have AVOD like mainline.
I totally understand OP's frustration; delayed baggage in such a circumstance is unacceptable. I just find it interesting how the perception is different for the different aircraft, when both aircraft likely aren't significantly different in age. The aircraft with the newer seats is referred to as "museum-quality unrestored" and the aircraft with the older interior is referred to as "modern."
Of course, YMMV.
Feb 7, 2019, 3:14 pm
#38
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: YVR TLS
Programs: Air France Flying Blue, Altitude SE-100k, AAdvantage, United Mileage Plus, WS rewards, BonVoy Titan
Posts: 913
Delta: loves to fly and it shows...or is it Delta: loves to fly when it snows...Lol!
Every major airline has it's quirks, I've flown DL and it's no great shakes IMHO!
Sorry to hear about your bad experience...
Every major airline has it's quirks, I've flown DL and it's no great shakes IMHO!
Sorry to hear about your bad experience...
Feb 7, 2019, 3:15 pm
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: FL
Programs: DL, UA, AA, AS, Hilton, Marriott, Avis
Posts: 37
I don't understand why people are blaming the OP for only checking the bag to YYZ. Assuming that the gate-checked baggage tag is written by hand, that seems like a very sensible thing to do, as it would take more human intervention (which is usually a bad thing at AC) to facilitate the bag being transferred to YVR upon arrival at YYZ as it would lack a bar code. If the baggage handlers couldn't take the bag off the plane and put it on the right carousel at YYZ, I'm really sceptical that they would have handled the connection to YVR properly. That bag was effectively lost as soon as it left the OP's hand in RSW, regardless of what was written on that baggage tag; they could have handwritten "Valhalla" as the destination and it still probably would have ended up in YXY.
Unlike many here, it seems, I totally respect the OP for their choice to vote with their feet. I did something similar last year when I bailed from BA to AC (I would have no status on BA at all this year if they didn't have a soft-landing system for status). Cost cutting taken to an extreme has made BA, once an excellent airline to fly with, a poor value proposition flying YYZ-LHR given the fact that pricing on AC & BA tend to be identical on this route. Choosing to take our business elsewhere is really the only recourse we have against poor treatment by large airlines; unfortunately in Canada the lack of significant competition makes it much more difficult to do. I'm lucky that most of my travel is TATL where there is competition from foreign airlines who also fly non-stop on several routes.
Unlike many here, it seems, I totally respect the OP for their choice to vote with their feet. I did something similar last year when I bailed from BA to AC (I would have no status on BA at all this year if they didn't have a soft-landing system for status). Cost cutting taken to an extreme has made BA, once an excellent airline to fly with, a poor value proposition flying YYZ-LHR given the fact that pricing on AC & BA tend to be identical on this route. Choosing to take our business elsewhere is really the only recourse we have against poor treatment by large airlines; unfortunately in Canada the lack of significant competition makes it much more difficult to do. I'm lucky that most of my travel is TATL where there is competition from foreign airlines who also fly non-stop on several routes.
Regardless, it wasn’t attached to my FRL, until I closed the loop in YVR on arrival and presented the receipt. The YYZ agent MAY have manually entered it, but I don’t recall him asking for my BP, let alone scanning it
Feb 7, 2019, 3:20 pm
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: FL
Programs: DL, UA, AA, AS, Hilton, Marriott, Avis
Posts: 37
And those instances were weather-, mechanical-, or infrastructure-caused. I view my problem this week as purely of AC’s making, and have yet to see any thoughtful view that would cause to to change my mind, in this thread.
Feb 7, 2019, 3:37 pm
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
These are OLD 763s. The seat hardware is the same stuff that was in these cabins when I lived in Canada, as are the overheads. The first were delivered in the early 80s. One made a dead stick landing at the Gimli airport in ‘84 while my then-neighbour was celebrating his high school homecoming reunion in the old mess hall on the airfield. This aircraft is identical to ones I flew in the late 80s and early 90s, except for seat covers, and the addition of 110V outlets in the armrests. DL & UA had similar configs. Can’t speak for UA, but any DL 767 I’ve flown in recent times has contemporary seats, and modern overhead bins.
Rouge operates 767-300's. The oldest 767-300 in Rouge's fleet dates from 1990, so it wasn't around at the time of that incident. Here is a list of all the 767's in Rouge's fleet. you need to click on each one to get their delivery date: https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/...ctive-b767.htm
You are right that they have the original bins (not unusual) but the seats are not from when the aircraft were delivered. At the time both AC and CP had "barcalounger" J seating that was far more comfortable than what is currently in Rouge. I'm not sure where they got the seats from, but do agree that even though they are probably only 5 years old they feel old and shabby with the grey upholstery.
Feb 7, 2019, 3:44 pm
#42
Suspended
Join Date: May 2018
Location: ord
Programs: UA 1k SPG Platinum
Posts: 365
The good news is AC has lots of 767's, and no plans so far to replace them.Oh no widebody's on order. Oh wait AC did buy 4 used A330s planes from the budget airline TAP, perhaps a few less 767s will be here in another year.
The good news is some A220 (Cseries) are coming in 2021 and AC will have some newer planes eventually.
Send you bills to AC, they do pay for clothes, and of enough people send them bills they might start to do something about lost luggage.
The good news is some A220 (Cseries) are coming in 2021 and AC will have some newer planes eventually.
Send you bills to AC, they do pay for clothes, and of enough people send them bills they might start to do something about lost luggage.
Feb 7, 2019, 3:45 pm
#43
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
4 takeaways from this fabulous thread:
- OP is very well spoken. Nice to read a rant with some substance and panache.
- I have no problem with OP trying to carry on that bag - I just ordered one the same dimensions. Good to know that if I am going to board a 767 I'll need to check it and that I should do that properly so it doesn't go to Whitehorse.
- I am reasonably impressed with the rapid recovery on AC's part.
- I've done something terribly wrong with my life because I would never consider a $600 outfit "minimally respectable".
Feb 7, 2019, 3:53 pm
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 669
It doesn't appear so in this case. Do you have any data to back up the claim of "general bad", or any particular function that disappoints? Is it originating bags, connecting bags or delivery to carousel that you view as poor?
The baggage system is undergoing major overhaul, which will improve the speed that bags transit the labyrinth under the terminal. Of course, the airport itself doesn't assume any responsibility for the bags until the ground handlers have offloaded them from the airplane and driven to the appropriate airside belt. After that happens, the delivery stats which I have seen suggest that the rate of misplaced bags in Vancouver is really quite low and compares very favourably to other Canadian airports.
The baggage system is undergoing major overhaul, which will improve the speed that bags transit the labyrinth under the terminal. Of course, the airport itself doesn't assume any responsibility for the bags until the ground handlers have offloaded them from the airplane and driven to the appropriate airside belt. After that happens, the delivery stats which I have seen suggest that the rate of misplaced bags in Vancouver is really quite low and compares very favourably to other Canadian airports.
Feb 7, 2019, 3:58 pm
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,805
For those who subscribe to the “blame the victim” credo, this is the offending piece of luggage:
https://ca.tumi.com/p/tegra-lite-max...y-on-028720TG/
https://ca.tumi.com/p/tegra-lite-max...y-on-028720TG/
That bag should fit lengthwise in the 763 bin. Easily. Sideways it is 1 cm too tall.