Air Canada accused of 'lying' to pax to avoid paying up to $2,100 for lost luggage
Dec 9, 2018, 6:50 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 37
Air Canada accused of 'lying' to pax to avoid paying up to $2,100 for lost luggage
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...mits-1.4933798
Scott Bissell says Air Canada is "trying to get away with paying the least amount of compensation possible," after the airline lost his luggage on a trip to Florida and initially told him it wouldn't pay him back for clothes or any other necessities while he waited for his bag.
Under federal law, when an airline loses a passenger's luggage on an international flight, it can be held liable for damages up to $2,100. But a Go Public investigation has found that's not the message some inconvenienced passengers are getting from Air Canada.
Scott Bissell says Air Canada is "trying to get away with paying the least amount of compensation possible," after the airline lost his luggage on a trip to Florida and initially told him it wouldn't pay him back for clothes or any other necessities while he waited for his bag.
Under federal law, when an airline loses a passenger's luggage on an international flight, it can be held liable for damages up to $2,100. But a Go Public investigation has found that's not the message some inconvenienced passengers are getting from Air Canada.
Last edited by tcook052; Dec 10, 2018 at 12:23 am Reason: share first two paragraphs for readers
Dec 9, 2018, 7:11 pm
#2
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
The solution is pretty simple. Airlines should be required to print a passenger rights card that sets out their obligations under all relevant laws and their own tariff in the case of delay, overbooking, lost baggage, etc. That document is then approved by the CTA as being accurate and using simple and neutral language. This card is to be presented to passengers whenever a relevant situation occurs. Failure to do is itself a punishable offence, and results in doubling of the passenger's compensation.
Dec 9, 2018, 7:31 pm
#5
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
Scott Bissell says Air Canada is "trying to get away with paying the least amount of compensation possible,"
This line amuses me. Scott Bissell should seem less surprised that AC is trying to run their business with maximum revenues and lowest costs. I know it's only close to the end of getting our MBA that they teach us this Advanced Capitalism Approach, but there are so many of us with this graduate degree that I was sure it had become common knowledge.
This line amuses me. Scott Bissell should seem less surprised that AC is trying to run their business with maximum revenues and lowest costs. I know it's only close to the end of getting our MBA that they teach us this Advanced Capitalism Approach, but there are so many of us with this graduate degree that I was sure it had become common knowledge.
Dec 9, 2018, 7:33 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
We should also personally interview pilots and air traffic controllers before departure to ensure they are qualified, rather than having nanny licensing laws.
Each passenger should be handed a binder of maintenance documentation for the aircraft in the gate area so they can make sure it is all in order, rather than having nanny maintenance rules.
We should all be trained in Krav Maga so we can personally deal with any security threats on the aircraft, rather than having nanny security screening.
You should investigate the entire supply chain of your milk to determine how fresh it is, rather than having nanny 'best before' dates printed.
It's utterly ignorant to expect every single customer of a multi-billionaire enterprise to personally hold it accountable for its legal responsibilities, rather than having the company be required to proactively uphold its already-legislated responsibilities.
Most developed countries recognize this through consumer protection regulations rather than relying on litigation by consumers. There are two primary exceptions: the USA and Canada. We all know how notoriously expensive air travel is in overly-regulated Europe.
In any marketplace, transparency and access to information spurs competition and efficiency. Requiring disclosure of important information is the ultimate free market solution, because markets require it to work. Markets with huge information asymmetry are distorted and inefficient markets.
Dec 9, 2018, 7:36 pm
#7
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
Scott Bissell says Air Canada is "trying to get away with paying the least amount of compensation possible,"
This line amuses me. Scott Bissell should seem less surprised that AC is trying to run their business with maximum revenues and lowest costs. I know it's only close to the end of getting our MBA that they teach us this Advanced Capitalism Approach, but there are so many of us with this graduate degree that I was sure it had become common knowledge.
This line amuses me. Scott Bissell should seem less surprised that AC is trying to run their business with maximum revenues and lowest costs. I know it's only close to the end of getting our MBA that they teach us this Advanced Capitalism Approach, but there are so many of us with this graduate degree that I was sure it had become common knowledge.
Dec 9, 2018, 7:46 pm
#8
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
Dec 9, 2018, 7:52 pm
#9
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
The article clearly states that not one but two Air Canada agents lied to Mr. Bissell about their policies and obligations. Not that they didn't come out fast enough waving a cheque in his face.
When companies act to maximize profit, I don't expect lying and breaking the law to be part of that.
When companies act to maximize profit, I don't expect lying and breaking the law to be part of that.
Dec 9, 2018, 7:53 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
"And if you do have trouble resolving a luggage issue with an airline, make your complaint public, he says....Senior executives of airlines are very sensitive now to social media."
It's unfortunate that the state of customer service has come down to this; basically teaching the traveller that unless they leverage the influence of media, they are less likely to reach a satisfactory resolution than by private dealings with the airline itself. I understand there are limits when making a grievance public, but if people didn't harness social and conventional media, how many more bags would be lost, compensations declined, guitars broken and doctors dragged? My presumption is: many.
It's unfortunate that the state of customer service has come down to this; basically teaching the traveller that unless they leverage the influence of media, they are less likely to reach a satisfactory resolution than by private dealings with the airline itself. I understand there are limits when making a grievance public, but if people didn't harness social and conventional media, how many more bags would be lost, compensations declined, guitars broken and doctors dragged? My presumption is: many.
Dec 9, 2018, 8:01 pm
#11
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Bonvoy Platinum Elite, IHG Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 2,132
The article clearly states that not one but two Air Canada agents lied to Mr. Bissell about their policies and obligations. Not that they didn't come out fast enough waving a cheque in his face.
When companies act to maximize profit, I don't expect lying and breaking the law to be part of that.
When companies act to maximize profit, I don't expect lying and breaking the law to be part of that.
Did I state amusement with the entire article, or did I take a moment to quote a particular line and clearly state amusement with said line?
As a side note - lying/deception is the main thing that enrages me. Just ask my children. I can see how I was misunderstood, but please be careful with the assumptions you make about people.
I'll agree with one thing you alluded to though - my utterly useless degree was ridiculously overpriced. I was trying to be humorous in bringing it up and I regret it because it came off like I was an elitist with a wonderful back-patting machine. I assure you I have nothing to be boastful about. Just ask my wife.
Dec 9, 2018, 8:26 pm
#12
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,005
Value of an MBA.
One of my favourite threads. Back when we were allowed to talk about such things.
One of my favourite threads. Back when we were allowed to talk about such things.
Dec 9, 2018, 9:17 pm
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Value of an MBA.
One of my favourite threads. Back when we were allowed to talk about such things.
One of my favourite threads. Back when we were allowed to talk about such things.
Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing.
Dec 9, 2018, 9:18 pm
#14
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
Dec 10, 2018, 3:48 pm
#15
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Body in Downtown YYZ, heart and mind elsewhere
Programs: UA 50K, refugee from AC E50K, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 5,132
I actually looked it up.
Article 17 of the Montreal Convention states that the carrier is liable to destruction or loss of luggage, unless the luggage itself is defective. It goes on to say that the carrier must either admit loss of checked bag, or your bag has not arrived after 21 days then you're entitle to compensation.
To further complicate things, compensation is limited to 1000 Special Drawing Rights.
So just what the heck is a Special Drawing Right? I had to look that one up too. Basically it's a unit of currency created by the International Monetary Fund.
Right now, 1 SDR = $1.86 Canadian.
So if an airline loses your bag for 21d or more, you're entitled to roughly $1856.88 CAD or whatever the current SDR/CAD rate is.
Article 17 of the Montreal Convention states that the carrier is liable to destruction or loss of luggage, unless the luggage itself is defective. It goes on to say that the carrier must either admit loss of checked bag, or your bag has not arrived after 21 days then you're entitle to compensation.
Originally Posted by Montreal Convention Article 17
2. The carrier is liable for damage sustained in case of
destruction or loss of, or of damage to, checked baggage
upon condition only that the event which caused the
destruction, loss or damage took place on board the aircraft
or during any period within which the checked baggage
was in the charge of the carrier. However, the carrier is not
liable if and to the extent that the damage resulted from the
inherent defect, quality or vice of the baggage. In the case
of unchecked baggage, including personal items, the carrier
is liable if the damage resulted from its fault or that of its
servants or agents.
3. If the carrier admits the loss of the checked baggage,
or if the checked baggage has not arrived at the expiration
of twenty-one days after the date on which it ought to have
arrived, the passenger is entitled to enforce against the
carrier the rights which flow from the contract of carriage.
destruction or loss of, or of damage to, checked baggage
upon condition only that the event which caused the
destruction, loss or damage took place on board the aircraft
or during any period within which the checked baggage
was in the charge of the carrier. However, the carrier is not
liable if and to the extent that the damage resulted from the
inherent defect, quality or vice of the baggage. In the case
of unchecked baggage, including personal items, the carrier
is liable if the damage resulted from its fault or that of its
servants or agents.
3. If the carrier admits the loss of the checked baggage,
or if the checked baggage has not arrived at the expiration
of twenty-one days after the date on which it ought to have
arrived, the passenger is entitled to enforce against the
carrier the rights which flow from the contract of carriage.
Originally Posted by Montreal Convention Article 22
2. In the carriage of baggage, the liability of the carrier
in the case of destruction, loss, damage or delay is limited
to 1 000 Special Drawing Rights for each passenger
unless the passenger has made, at the time when the
checked baggage was handed over to the carrier, a special
declaration of interest in delivery at destination and has paid
a supplementary sum if the case so requires. In that case
the carrier will be liable to pay a sum not exceeding the
declared sum, unless it proves that the sum is greater than
the passenger’s actual interest in delivery at destination.
in the case of destruction, loss, damage or delay is limited
to 1 000 Special Drawing Rights for each passenger
unless the passenger has made, at the time when the
checked baggage was handed over to the carrier, a special
declaration of interest in delivery at destination and has paid
a supplementary sum if the case so requires. In that case
the carrier will be liable to pay a sum not exceeding the
declared sum, unless it proves that the sum is greater than
the passenger’s actual interest in delivery at destination.
Originally Posted by IMF
The SDR is an international reserve asset, created by the IMF in 1969 to supplement its member countries’ official reserves. So far SDR 204.2 billion (equivalent to about US$291 billion) have been allocated to members, including SDR 182.6 billion allocated in 2009 in the wake of the global financial crisis. The value of the SDR is based on a basket of five currencies—the U.S. dollar, the euro, the Chinese renminbi, the Japanese yen, and the British pound sterling.
So if an airline loses your bag for 21d or more, you're entitled to roughly $1856.88 CAD or whatever the current SDR/CAD rate is.