msn

Reality check - how is it for pilots in general right now?

As a point of reference, I have excerpted part of the this Associated Press report:

Northwest Mulls Furloughs
As SARS Limits Business

Associated Press

EAGAN, Minn. -- Northwest Airlines expects to furlough 150 more pilots because of cutbacks in Asia flights stemming from travelers' fears about SARS, the union representing its pilots said.

Although Northwest said Friday that no decision has been made about SARS-related layoffs in other work groups, the Eagan-based airline recently notified all of its unions that more jobs may be cut due to passenger fears about severe acute respiratory syndrome.

Analysts estimate that about 20% of Northwest's revenue comes from its trans-Pacific routes. The carrier serves Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai, Taipei, Singapore and 10 other cities through its Tokyo hub.

The latest planned cuts, announced Friday on the Air Line Pilots Association hot line, would bring the number of Northwest pilot furloughs to 1,093 by January 2004.

Edited for spelling - GENERAL, not gerneal!

[This message has been edited by msn (edited 05-31-2003).]

tracon

Generally not good. However there are jobs and you have to be in the right place at the right time. As for laid off pilots usually they have to give up there seniority # at there original employer if they agree to accept employment at another carrier while they are laid off. Basically they have to quit so the new employer doesn't pay for all the training. Otherwise guys would work for a year while on layoff and then back to the original employer.

Emirates is one the largest carriers hiring at the moment. WS is doing alot of hiring. Locally there are lots of little buttmunch carriers hiring seasonally or as the need arises.

mtacchi

As a resident Airline pilot on this forum, I can assure the industry is not great right now. HOWEVER, if you are flexible, there are many fantastic jobs for guys with A340/330/320/ect.. or Big Boeing ratings in the world. I have many friends at Qatar or Cathay, Japan Air Systems, ect...

Besides, if AC fell (lets hope), someone would start doing there routes in a matter of days and need to hire.

We are looking at 3 new routes currently serviced by AC/Jazz.

Their demise is a bigger cheque for me.

parnel

You do sound like a pilot-----arrogant!!!

Andrew Yiu

As much as some people don't like AC and refuse to fly them - that's a very selfish thought.

mtacchi

You know Parnel, any response I write is a waste of my time. You're a waste of energy.

Skyhawk

Mtacchi, parnel means arrogant as a compliment. I too am a pilot!

Shareholder

"someone would start doing there routes in a matter of days and need to hire."

How exactly would someone get an operating license from DOT to operate such a carrier? Or receive operating authorities for the routes AC abandons? Let alone find several hundred million in working capital? Or get a res system going? Or find staff that can pass DOT certification? Or arrange for aircraft leases?

Well, let's just say that months is more like it. Even existing carriers like AirTransat and SkyService would have trouble tripling in size in a couple of weeks if Ottawa could get its act together fast enough.

The demand for pilots looks to be moving downstream, to those who can operate RJs, not those operating large Airbuses and Boeings. Perhaps in another 10-years when the current senior generation starts to retire there will be space at the top end. The other squeeze is going to be at the mid-range A320, as senior pilots drop down to these aircraft, and the actual number drop as they are replaced by RJs.

This is more likely what CALPA fretted about most, not the actual $ cuts.

parnel

Mtaachi, my remarks were to show how poor your statement was. Ac while not perfect,and I don't know who you fly for, has made some errors and been forced into others. Long story short, this episode has served to show that pilots are badly overpaid on the mainline and the cuts they are taking are long overdue in an industry whose economics have changed dramatically.I know it hurts if its your paycheck that's hit b ut most of us have been through simlar situations in our lives.
My support is for the airline and its survival and its only means of true survival are to cut costs because revenues are not supporting the current structure.

The decimation of their revenue base would have hit them hard in any event and no matter what their balance sheet looked like they would have had to retrench like they are doing, so blaming the past mistakes on this is totally wrong.

why fly

go get that job! With global air travel % down and noboby expecting it to come back to these levels for years, start looking and you better hurry as there might be a few pilots ahead of you from the US who are already laid off.
AND maybe you better speak to your "friend" at Cathay as hes unemplyed at the moment. And Japan is deregulating its industry so JAL might not be a good pick either, Oh and the "banks" that are lending JAL money for planes, have a serious cash problem at the moment so I hope they have a used plane "out back" for you to fly.

mtacchi

Shareholder,

There are many existing carriers in Canada which only need to expand, such as us, 20-30 % to take a piece of the pie. We already have all the CTA, DOT, TC, FAA certification in place. Adding a few more destinations is nothing more than marketing.

taupo

I have sympathy for the pilots. IMO, they should be very well paid. The training is long and expensive, the responsibility is enormous (dollar and life wise), the technical knowledge required is huge.

Having said this, many pilots make their $150-$230k working very few hours, I could see layoffs, while having the remaining pilots work longer hours.

When you stack a pilots education and
responsibility against that of another professional with a similar investment in education and carrying a similar responsibility, their pay is reasonable. Lets not forget the lifestyle of being away from home and having odd hours and sleep patterns.

LeSabre74

I hear some pilots are quite happy being away from home and even happier with the odd "sleep patterns" that it leads to

exAC

The pilot comes out sadly lacking.
The cost of the education is comparable to any junior university degree. The time spent learning is less.
The responsibility is a result of union contracts and seniority. The guy who signed his name to say that the wings are attached properly has as much or more responsibility. A pilot at Air Canada gets more responsibility as he/she moves from 30 passenger airplanes to 400 passenger airplanes because they got older [not better]. Whether they are good or better at the job is of no consequence as long as they have paid their union dues.

msn

Yes, where else can someone at age 17 go to a trade school and come out in a couple of years with a profession that people put on a level with a medical doctor?