Whats AC/AE 's responsibility when missed connection
Dec 21, 2017, 4:15 pm
#46
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
Yes, my colleagues at GAL advise NOT so much interest.
GAL has introduced something new, that requires NO airline involvement, and marketed directly to passengers for speeding up baggage process for two-ticket travel. GAL pays for the Ground Handler for this service, and recovers costs through additional potential commercial spend, and improved processing at check-in - GAL has service level agreement with airlines, that is monitored by government so makes sense also in a regulatory way to pursue this.
video only +2 mins
GAL has introduced something new, that requires NO airline involvement, and marketed directly to passengers for speeding up baggage process for two-ticket travel. GAL pays for the Ground Handler for this service, and recovers costs through additional potential commercial spend, and improved processing at check-in - GAL has service level agreement with airlines, that is monitored by government so makes sense also in a regulatory way to pursue this.
video only +2 mins
Dec 21, 2017, 4:39 pm
#48
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
Here's the policy for MCT
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...ion-times.html
Here is the link to IROPS policy (same as the PDF previous person posted)
https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...Operations.pdf
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...ion-times.html
Here is the link to IROPS policy (same as the PDF previous person posted)
https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...Operations.pdf
Dec 21, 2017, 5:53 pm
#49
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
GAL has introduced something new, that requires NO airline involvement, and marketed directly to passengers for speeding up baggage process for two-ticket travel. GAL pays for the Ground Handler for this service, and recovers costs through additional potential commercial spend, and improved processing at check-in - GAL has service level agreement with airlines, that is monitored by government so makes sense also in a regulatory way to pursue this.
Here's the policy for MCT
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...ion-times.html
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...ion-times.html
Two tickets, two itineraries, booked by PAX. That isn't a connection. Airline 1 has no involvement with verifying Airline 2 itinerary, airline 2 has no involvement in airline 1 itinerary. They did not have the opportunity, let alone did they actually, verify the over all plans. And the risk of mis-connection and build that risk into either of their price.
That the airlines might (try to) check luggage all the way through means no more than if your hotel's bellboy puts your luggage into a cab. That doesn't magically join the hotel and cab in responsibility for you.
Dec 21, 2017, 6:09 pm
#50
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
the accepted industry term is "self-connect"
During peak periods, National Express runs 5-6 coaches / hour between LHR & LGW, reflecting quite large volumes of travelers doing exactly this.
Also reflects the connection premium embedded in network carrier charges, which Air Canada certainly benefits from given large volumes of Star & Non-Star connections @ LHR
During peak periods, National Express runs 5-6 coaches / hour between LHR & LGW, reflecting quite large volumes of travelers doing exactly this.
Also reflects the connection premium embedded in network carrier charges, which Air Canada certainly benefits from given large volumes of Star & Non-Star connections @ LHR
Dec 21, 2017, 6:46 pm
#51
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YQB
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,139
Seems like a lot of potential stress and wasted time just to avoid Rouge. I know I'd rather fly direct and go eat tapas instead but I don't want to be classified as RCHHMP so I'll just wish OP a safe and uneventful trip!
Dec 21, 2017, 7:52 pm
#52
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toronto
Programs: AC SE100K, Emerald Exec, HHG
Posts: 631
[QUOTE=LondonElite;29202816]I'm not sure if you are referring to this AC document or not, but as I've said above, I've brought this up with senior agents at LHR and they categorically say that, if you are on separate tickets, there is nothing that they will do. When they are shown the document, they say that this doesn't change anything, it's not relevant, we are not going to do anything for you if you booked separate tickets.
+1
As stated in the Air Canada Contract of Carriage Pg 84 for International Tariffs:
"Carrier assumes no responsibility for passenger making connections not included as part of the itinerary set out in the ticket. Carrier is not responsible for changes, errors or omissions either in timetables or other representations of schedules. The carrier will not guarantee and will not be held liable for cancellations or changes to flight times that appear on passengers' tickets due to force majeure, including labor disruptions or strikes. However, a passenger may invoke the provisions of the convention regarding liability in the case of delay."
https://www.aircanada.com/content/da..._Tariff_en.pdf
+1
As stated in the Air Canada Contract of Carriage Pg 84 for International Tariffs:
"Carrier assumes no responsibility for passenger making connections not included as part of the itinerary set out in the ticket. Carrier is not responsible for changes, errors or omissions either in timetables or other representations of schedules. The carrier will not guarantee and will not be held liable for cancellations or changes to flight times that appear on passengers' tickets due to force majeure, including labor disruptions or strikes. However, a passenger may invoke the provisions of the convention regarding liability in the case of delay."
https://www.aircanada.com/content/da..._Tariff_en.pdf
Dec 21, 2017, 8:19 pm
#53
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,195
AC also promises duty of care in event of controllable irrops or cancellation.
Which, from an incident about a year ago, seems to include sleeping on foam mats provided by the Tokyo airport instead of hotels... And an airport meal consisting of one stale roll wrapped in cellophane after several hours.
I suspect even a Super Elite, with concierge phone access, will encounter a long period of dead silence and time on hold when asking AC to fix a self-connection missed due to a 2+ hour AC delay.
If the passenger waits it out, maybe overnight, I have no doubt AC and Aeroplan will fix/reticket. But if they buy their own airfare to fix it themselves, and expect a big reimbursement, I'd expect an uphill battle or a lawsuit to get paid.
Imagine if a 2hr1min delay, on a $99 AC fare from yul-ord, caused a passenger to miss a flight to an international destination where last minute tickets cost $2500.... I doubt they willingly hand over a check for 25x the amount you paid AC in the first place.
Which, from an incident about a year ago, seems to include sleeping on foam mats provided by the Tokyo airport instead of hotels... And an airport meal consisting of one stale roll wrapped in cellophane after several hours.
I suspect even a Super Elite, with concierge phone access, will encounter a long period of dead silence and time on hold when asking AC to fix a self-connection missed due to a 2+ hour AC delay.
If the passenger waits it out, maybe overnight, I have no doubt AC and Aeroplan will fix/reticket. But if they buy their own airfare to fix it themselves, and expect a big reimbursement, I'd expect an uphill battle or a lawsuit to get paid.
Imagine if a 2hr1min delay, on a $99 AC fare from yul-ord, caused a passenger to miss a flight to an international destination where last minute tickets cost $2500.... I doubt they willingly hand over a check for 25x the amount you paid AC in the first place.
Dec 21, 2017, 8:38 pm
#54
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,342
GAL can move baggage and PAX back in time if the inbound arrives after the outbound?
Connection. The word is connection.
Two tickets, two itineraries, booked by PAX. That isn't a connection. Airline 1 has no involvement with verifying Airline 2 itinerary, airline 2 has no involvement in airline 1 itinerary. They did not have the opportunity, let alone did they actually, verify the over all plans. And the risk of mis-connection and build that risk into either of their price.
That the airlines might (try to) check luggage all the way through means no more than if your hotel's bellboy puts your luggage into a cab. That doesn't magically join the hotel and cab in responsibility for you.
Connection. The word is connection.
Two tickets, two itineraries, booked by PAX. That isn't a connection. Airline 1 has no involvement with verifying Airline 2 itinerary, airline 2 has no involvement in airline 1 itinerary. They did not have the opportunity, let alone did they actually, verify the over all plans. And the risk of mis-connection and build that risk into either of their price.
That the airlines might (try to) check luggage all the way through means no more than if your hotel's bellboy puts your luggage into a cab. That doesn't magically join the hotel and cab in responsibility for you.
This applies to:
-All ticket stock, all fare types and all booking sources;
-Customers holding separate tickets:
____Air Canada connecting to Air Canada
____Air Canada connecting to other airlines
-All ticket stock, all fare types and all booking sources;
-Customers holding separate tickets:
____Air Canada connecting to Air Canada
____Air Canada connecting to other airlines
Explain to me how that could possibly not cover the OP's situation.
It's AC connecting to another airline (check)
on separate tickets (check)
booked through a source with a fare type on some ticket stock (check)
Check check check.
Dec 21, 2017, 8:40 pm
#55
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,569
If you paid AC to get you to LHR, and they get you to LHR 3:59 late, why would you expect anything? If 4:01 or longer, why would you expect more than €600? What you do after you get off the plane on the last leg of your ticket is your business, not AC's
Dec 21, 2017, 9:53 pm
#57
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
Dec 21, 2017, 9:54 pm
#58
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
It might be easier if you list the occasions where you have had success. Airlines can through-check baggage on separate tickets where there is an interline agreement, but they don't have to. The number of airlines willing to do this has decreased significantly. If you can get it done, great, but don't expect this feature on separate tickets.
From Canada to USA and Mexico usually leave on AC and switch to one of the US3 although some were with continental back in the day. One time may have been with SouthWest.
This is all in the last 15 years, so maybe they stopped this customer friendly service. Especially since the second carrier doesn't get baggage fees.
Dec 21, 2017, 10:36 pm
#59
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: Only J via Peasant Points, 777HDPeasant or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance and Narcissism.
Posts: 5,953
Ugh you guys are really making me nervous now lol...
I haven't book LHR BCN ticket yet but given a five hour forty minute connection time AND ability to SDC all way to the last flight... AC would have to literally delay by 8.5 hours for us to miss our flight.
I mean.. even if that is the case... surely AC will be able to reroute us at YYZ to Madrid or BCN direct flight. I mean, you really have screw up big time to miss the flight arrival by that much. I also checked the same day fare from LHR BCN... doesn't seems to be that bad.
I mean obviously I wont ask for any comp, as long as they manage to get us close or directly to BCN in the end.. within 24 hours from the scheduled arrival time in LHR... thats not too much to ask for right?
Though I am now very concerned ....
I haven't book LHR BCN ticket yet but given a five hour forty minute connection time AND ability to SDC all way to the last flight... AC would have to literally delay by 8.5 hours for us to miss our flight.
I mean.. even if that is the case... surely AC will be able to reroute us at YYZ to Madrid or BCN direct flight. I mean, you really have screw up big time to miss the flight arrival by that much. I also checked the same day fare from LHR BCN... doesn't seems to be that bad.
I mean obviously I wont ask for any comp, as long as they manage to get us close or directly to BCN in the end.. within 24 hours from the scheduled arrival time in LHR... thats not too much to ask for right?
Though I am now very concerned ....
Last edited by Jumper Jack; Dec 21, 2017 at 10:55 pm
Dec 21, 2017, 11:32 pm
#60
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
humble suggestion:
1. If you have access to Concierge, just call and ask what might happen.
2. If Non-SE, just call AC and ask (although you need to find agent who will call Help Desk for someone with international ticketing experience)
3. Buy back-up flexible ticket that you can cancel for full refund, if NOT needed (my practice, backed up by my credit card insurance)
But seriously are you trying to save few bucks to get from LHR to BCN when in your words "I am planning out a once in a lifetime trip" ?
NO airline will guarantee a service delivery outcome especially when stuff happens outside their control - a small mitigative measure can save yourself lot of aggravation, stress on your flight thinking about possible delays, and avoid spoiling your once in lifetime trip with a bad start...
ps...turns out you have exposed, and thank you for doing so, that some self-determined EXPERT FLIERS who incessantly post here with absolute confidence have been contradicted by other posts with equally valid counter-explanations. Lesson for me is always do your homework with factual sources...and that is certainly NOT from AC/AE FlyerTalk.
1. If you have access to Concierge, just call and ask what might happen.
2. If Non-SE, just call AC and ask (although you need to find agent who will call Help Desk for someone with international ticketing experience)
3. Buy back-up flexible ticket that you can cancel for full refund, if NOT needed (my practice, backed up by my credit card insurance)
But seriously are you trying to save few bucks to get from LHR to BCN when in your words "I am planning out a once in a lifetime trip" ?
NO airline will guarantee a service delivery outcome especially when stuff happens outside their control - a small mitigative measure can save yourself lot of aggravation, stress on your flight thinking about possible delays, and avoid spoiling your once in lifetime trip with a bad start...
ps...turns out you have exposed, and thank you for doing so, that some self-determined EXPERT FLIERS who incessantly post here with absolute confidence have been contradicted by other posts with equally valid counter-explanations. Lesson for me is always do your homework with factual sources...and that is certainly NOT from AC/AE FlyerTalk.
Last edited by skybluesea; Dec 21, 2017 at 11:38 pm