Is AQD requirement helping or hurting AC?
May 30, 2017, 8:11 am
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,268
I always start mine in Japan or Korea, because of price, and past few years have all been issued by LH. I know the rules say any Star member can issue
the RTW ticket, but is AC willing to issue it originating in Asia if the first
flight is not with AC?
May 30, 2017, 9:03 am
#33
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: YOW
Programs: AC SE, SPG Plat, FPC Plat, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 553
In my case they are making more money. I do one of their feeder routes and Tango fares are as low as $340 ($204 AQD). In the past I could get SE on segments with less than $5k in AQDs. Now I am spending more money (flying other routes as well) to ensure I hit the AQD requirement for SE100k.
May 30, 2017, 5:05 pm
#34
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: AC SE, SPG Lifetime Plat, ACMM
Posts: 3,535
Where do you originate the RTWs?
I always start mine in Japan or Korea, because of price, and past few years have all been issued by LH. I know the rules say any Star member can issue
the RTW ticket, but is AC willing to issue it originating in Asia if the first
flight is not with AC?
I always start mine in Japan or Korea, because of price, and past few years have all been issued by LH. I know the rules say any Star member can issue
the RTW ticket, but is AC willing to issue it originating in Asia if the first
flight is not with AC?
May 30, 2017, 6:34 pm
#35
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: YYZ/DLC
Programs: AP, HHonours Diamond
Posts: 3,722
I flew AC YYZ-MUC and then MUC-YYZ as well as YYZ-FRA all part of an LH ticket all in E fare and the three segments on AC above have earned me, wait for it, $5.88 and $6.10!
How is this possible?! How is this AQD calculated exactly?
How is this possible?! How is this AQD calculated exactly?
May 31, 2017, 8:10 pm
#36
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MLL / AC Cafe
Programs: It's hard to get status when the website won't let me book flights.
Posts: 5,706
Of course that strategy presupposes that after a FFer switches to a different program because of AQD, they will switch "back" the instant AC "improves" their FF program in light of falling ridership.
But there's a significant probability that many of those displaced FFers will be satisfied or even happy with their new arrangements and decide to stay where they are. After all, if AC starts to improve their FF program it's likely that all their competitors will as well.
I accidentally found myself in SkyTeam because I could not get an advance upgrade on a wide open J cabin on AC33, even on a >$6000 econo fare. And because I started the year in SkyTeam I found myself... directed, I suppose... on to Delta.
And once there I found that DL's program suited me perfectly. I never looked back (to AC.)
But there's a significant probability that many of those displaced FFers will be satisfied or even happy with their new arrangements and decide to stay where they are. After all, if AC starts to improve their FF program it's likely that all their competitors will as well.
I accidentally found myself in SkyTeam because I could not get an advance upgrade on a wide open J cabin on AC33, even on a >$6000 econo fare. And because I started the year in SkyTeam I found myself... directed, I suppose... on to Delta.
And once there I found that DL's program suited me perfectly. I never looked back (to AC.)
They know this and instead have decided they are ok with the loss of those FF because they will have the chance to pick up new FF's (as in new to FF'ing) when they are forced to improve the program.
May 31, 2017, 8:33 pm
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
OR
AQD is only relevant to those who need the spend to get the status. AC set the barrier to entry.
However, for every one Altitude member who leaves or drops a level, there are a bunch of Americans filling the planes, quite a few of whom are thrilled with the bargain biz fares - and these are people who I've met on my flights who are connecting in YYZ and YVR.
AQD is only relevant to those who need the spend to get the status. AC set the barrier to entry.
However, for every one Altitude member who leaves or drops a level, there are a bunch of Americans filling the planes, quite a few of whom are thrilled with the bargain biz fares - and these are people who I've met on my flights who are connecting in YYZ and YVR.
Jun 1, 2017, 4:59 am
#38
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: x-17 yr AC*SE100 1MM, now E50 Gold :(, SPG Lifetime Platinum, Fairmont Platinum, HH Gold, Marriott Plat, Yadayadayada
Posts: 97
I was just updating my signature below for today's flight (and I still have a
JL flight and DL flight tomorrow), when it struck me that from 1990 or so until
2015 I would not have more than a handful of non-Star Alliance flights a year.
The usual exceptions were things like the AZ fare mistake, or flights within
China where *A was not available.
Last year my non-AC/*A flights increased, and this year they are increasing
even more.
I am still flying my 100K+ miles annually, but since *A flights will no longer get
me to SE, I am now looking for the best prices.
So AC is saving the cost of me being SE, but they and *A are losing a lot
of my overall business ( which is overwhelmingly paid F/J international travel).
Is this really a long-term winning strategy for AC?
JL flight and DL flight tomorrow), when it struck me that from 1990 or so until
2015 I would not have more than a handful of non-Star Alliance flights a year.
The usual exceptions were things like the AZ fare mistake, or flights within
China where *A was not available.
Last year my non-AC/*A flights increased, and this year they are increasing
even more.
I am still flying my 100K+ miles annually, but since *A flights will no longer get
me to SE, I am now looking for the best prices.
So AC is saving the cost of me being SE, but they and *A are losing a lot
of my overall business ( which is overwhelmingly paid F/J international travel).
Is this really a long-term winning strategy for AC?
I, like at least three other ex-SE's that I personally know, disengaged last year. I knew with my flight patterns that getting 014's issued on AC metal for many of my flights was just not going to happen. For the first time since 1998 (SE intro yr) started flying Tango and did two Asia trips on CX. My 014 spend went down significantly and my loyalty went away. I just have my 50k MM this year and feel no compelling reason to fly AC. The only perks I valued were the no co-pay for international and the 1KK. I have no strong desire to be up front when flying YVR-YYC, or even to YYZ, but definitely DO when flying to HKG. So, no SE is resulting in my choice for cheapest seat available.
Adding the *A metal will help a bit this year with my flight patterns but once I hit 75k and $9k (by Aug) I will resort to cheapest seat again on AC and will look for CX or UA likely for the 2 remaining Asia trips that I have in the fall. If SE was at the $12k level (vs $20k) then I would figure out a way to get back to SE. No incentive now. It sucks when you are still putting in the 100k+ miles but lose all of the benefits that you enjoyed for 16+ years as a loyal member, always trying to get the best appropriate fare that your corp policy would allow.
Loyalty disengaged from AC
Jun 1, 2017, 9:44 pm
#39
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Where are all those "new" frequent flyers going to come from, particularly when there's a market downturn?
And why would they choose Air Canada when it's likely that all the other programs will also be attempting to lure more passengers in a falling market by improving their FF program as well?
Or are you expecting the AC/AP program to become so bad that it starts to adversely affect loads and profits without the need for a drop in Air Travel, so that Air Canada will need to "improve the program" just to stay competitive? Will FFers think "Oh good, they are improving the program" after years of cutbacks, gutbacks, and other abuse?
Sounds pretty much like "I like to get beaten 'cause it feels so good when it stops."
Jun 1, 2017, 10:56 pm
#40
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MLL / AC Cafe
Programs: It's hard to get status when the website won't let me book flights.
Posts: 5,706
Really?
Where are all those "new" frequent flyers going to come from, particularly when there's a market downturn?
And why would they choose Air Canada when it's likely that all the other programs will also be attempting to lure more passengers in a falling market by improving their FF program as well?
Or are you expecting the AC/AP program to become so bad that it starts to adversely affect loads and profits without the need for a drop in Air Travel, so that Air Canada will need to "improve the program" just to stay competitive? Will FFers think "Oh good, they are improving the program" after years of cutbacks, gutbacks, and other abuse?
Sounds pretty much like "I like to get beaten 'cause it feels so good when it stops."
Where are all those "new" frequent flyers going to come from, particularly when there's a market downturn?
And why would they choose Air Canada when it's likely that all the other programs will also be attempting to lure more passengers in a falling market by improving their FF program as well?
Or are you expecting the AC/AP program to become so bad that it starts to adversely affect loads and profits without the need for a drop in Air Travel, so that Air Canada will need to "improve the program" just to stay competitive? Will FFers think "Oh good, they are improving the program" after years of cutbacks, gutbacks, and other abuse?
Sounds pretty much like "I like to get beaten 'cause it feels so good when it stops."
Because new people come into jobs and people leave jobs, retire, change in career, etc. The workforce is always changing and because of that there will always be new FFers.
Jun 2, 2017, 9:57 am
#41
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
So normal, everyday turnover is going to provide an increased number of FFers even during a market downturn?
Jun 2, 2017, 11:22 am
#42
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
There will always be FF turnovers and if there is a major turndown, a FF program will not save any airline. Only cutting the fleet/staff numbers will.
Jun 2, 2017, 11:56 am
#43
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
If we make the hypothetical premise that AQD is helping AC, by reducing the number of people with status ... why did AC offer people the chance to "buy up" to another level. An option that was explicitly only available up to E50k ... until E50k and 75k people got offers to buy up to E75k/SE.
It wouldn't surprise me if the new program in 2020 is purely dollar based. Live in the US, buy a SFO-SYD RT ticket in J, become SE with < 25k miles (or just over if routing through say YVR).
On the topic of how there will always be FF, I do wonder if the number is reducing as options to share screens and video calls etc... become more popular. They've existed for years, but some companies are only just starting to fully embrace them. Not to mention how "high speed internet" is much much more prevalent than 5-10 years ago.
I assume most people here have seen Up in the Air. Even if it wasn't the only choice on 8 internal NZ flights back in 2010
It wouldn't surprise me if the new program in 2020 is purely dollar based. Live in the US, buy a SFO-SYD RT ticket in J, become SE with < 25k miles (or just over if routing through say YVR).
On the topic of how there will always be FF, I do wonder if the number is reducing as options to share screens and video calls etc... become more popular. They've existed for years, but some companies are only just starting to fully embrace them. Not to mention how "high speed internet" is much much more prevalent than 5-10 years ago.
I assume most people here have seen Up in the Air. Even if it wasn't the only choice on 8 internal NZ flights back in 2010
Jun 2, 2017, 12:42 pm
#44
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Well, I posted this a while back
Bloomberg: Airlines Make More Money Selling Miles Than Seats
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...les-than-seats
Jun 2, 2017, 5:50 pm
#45
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,571
This being contrary to "loyalty" and possibly (likely) a bad long term thing is a different question. But buddy looking at next quarters bottom line when making that decision got his steak knives.
(I say that as someone who flew on his own dime YHZ/YYZ/YHZ on Dec 31 to get AQS 95 and 96)