Apr 2, 2017, 9:28 pm
Last edit by: Wigg
Moderator note: Any questions regarding availability/fare buckets on a specific flight or flights should be posted in the fare bucket check request thread. Any such posts in this thread will be deleted.
Q: When should I use eUpgrades, and when should I use AC Bid?
A: For starters, you can use both of them on a single booking. If one upgrade is accepted, the other is cancelled at no cost to you. One thing to consider is that eUpgrade priority is highly influenced by your Aeroplan Elite status and the fare class of the original ticket, but AC Bid is influenced by your bid as compared to other people. If you don't have a high Aeroplan Elite status, AC Bid may be the better choice for you.
Q: If I use a Bid Upgrade do I get additional SQM / SQD now for my flights?
A: No.
Q: If I use a Bid Upgrade on an International Flight leaving YYZ/YVR do I get access to the Signature Lounge?
A: No.
Q: When will I find out if my bid was successful?
A: You will be sent an email within 36 to 48 hours prior to your departure.
Q: If I am successfully upgraded, which baggage limit applies?
A: The baggage rules of the upgraded ticket apply. Note that this is different than eUpgrades, where the original tickets baggage rules still apply.
Q: When do I pay for a bid?
A: Your credit card is only charged when the bid is accepted, which will happen no earlier than 48 hours before departure. Note that if your card is declined, even temporarily for a fraud check, you will lose the bid and will not get another opportunity.
Q: Can I cancel an AC Bid?
A: Yes, but only until 48 hours before departure.
Q: If I cancel the booking after successfully bidding for an upgrade, or if I miss the flight, will I get a refund?
A: No.
Q: If Air Canada rebooks me on another flight, what happens to my AC Bid upgrade?
A: You keep it and Air Canada will put you in the upgraded cabin on the new flight. If the new flight does not have Premium Economy, or if there are not enough Business class seats, then your AC Bid will be refunded.
Q: I have a flight going from XXX to YYY on DD-MM-YY and the minimum bid is $ZZZ - what are my chances / what should I bid?
A: No one here really knows how Plusgrade as implemented by AC really 'decides' which bids to accept.
There are so many potential variables that it's best just to bid what you feel the upgrade is worth to you.
Q: I was successful in a Bid Upgrade to the PY cabin. Can I now use my e upgrades to attempt to upgrade to J?
A: No. Only 1 upgrade is allowed. The same applies to a last minute upgrade to PY.
AC Bid Upgrade - FAQs
If your upgrade request is accepted, the fare conditions for the original ticket you purchased shall remain in effect and will be applicable with respect to cancellation policies, change fees, conditions for minimum and maximum stay, and rules relating to the accrual of frequent flyer miles. All other conditions will be per the upgraded fare class.
On the AC website:
"AC Bid Upgrade - Your opportunity to travel in a higher cabin class"
https://upgrade.plusgrade.com/offer/AirCanada
Q: When should I use eUpgrades, and when should I use AC Bid?
A: For starters, you can use both of them on a single booking. If one upgrade is accepted, the other is cancelled at no cost to you. One thing to consider is that eUpgrade priority is highly influenced by your Aeroplan Elite status and the fare class of the original ticket, but AC Bid is influenced by your bid as compared to other people. If you don't have a high Aeroplan Elite status, AC Bid may be the better choice for you.
Q: If I use a Bid Upgrade do I get additional SQM / SQD now for my flights?
A: No.
Q: If I use a Bid Upgrade on an International Flight leaving YYZ/YVR do I get access to the Signature Lounge?
A: No.
Q: When will I find out if my bid was successful?
A: You will be sent an email within 36 to 48 hours prior to your departure.
Q: If I am successfully upgraded, which baggage limit applies?
A: The baggage rules of the upgraded ticket apply. Note that this is different than eUpgrades, where the original tickets baggage rules still apply.
Q: When do I pay for a bid?
A: Your credit card is only charged when the bid is accepted, which will happen no earlier than 48 hours before departure. Note that if your card is declined, even temporarily for a fraud check, you will lose the bid and will not get another opportunity.
Q: Can I cancel an AC Bid?
A: Yes, but only until 48 hours before departure.
Q: If I cancel the booking after successfully bidding for an upgrade, or if I miss the flight, will I get a refund?
A: No.
Q: If Air Canada rebooks me on another flight, what happens to my AC Bid upgrade?
A: You keep it and Air Canada will put you in the upgraded cabin on the new flight. If the new flight does not have Premium Economy, or if there are not enough Business class seats, then your AC Bid will be refunded.
Q: I have a flight going from XXX to YYY on DD-MM-YY and the minimum bid is $ZZZ - what are my chances / what should I bid?
A: No one here really knows how Plusgrade as implemented by AC really 'decides' which bids to accept.
There are so many potential variables that it's best just to bid what you feel the upgrade is worth to you.
Q: I was successful in a Bid Upgrade to the PY cabin. Can I now use my e upgrades to attempt to upgrade to J?
A: No. Only 1 upgrade is allowed. The same applies to a last minute upgrade to PY.
AC Bid Upgrade - FAQs
If your upgrade request is accepted, the fare conditions for the original ticket you purchased shall remain in effect and will be applicable with respect to cancellation policies, change fees, conditions for minimum and maximum stay, and rules relating to the accrual of frequent flyer miles. All other conditions will be per the upgraded fare class.
On the AC website:
"AC Bid Upgrade - Your opportunity to travel in a higher cabin class"
https://upgrade.plusgrade.com/offer/AirCanada
Air Canada Bid Upgrade Program
Jul 4, 2017, 9:09 pm
#376
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,355
I can't even see how $50 on a 5 hour flight would help them short-term.
Between the lounge access, food, and beverage, not to mention any possible checked luggage fees being saved, I'd probably consume more than $50 in amenities.
Between the lounge access, food, and beverage, not to mention any possible checked luggage fees being saved, I'd probably consume more than $50 in amenities.
Jul 4, 2017, 9:17 pm
#377
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: Only J via Peasant Points, 777HDPeasant or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance and Narcissism.
Posts: 5,957
I imagine it goes via tiers, so one more is not going to cost them that much more.
Its like apply a OPLOG problem with bottlenecks, as long as you dont need to upgrade one component, it makes sense from short term perspective to squeeze as much as you can.
While you may drink a lot, on a per average basis. The incremental cost is likely to be much lower on an average basis.
Jul 4, 2017, 10:04 pm
#378
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,355
Those may not be exactly variable costs that will rise per incremental unit though.
I imagine it goes via tiers, so one more is not going to cost them that much more.
Its like apply a OPLOG problem with bottlenecks, as long as you dont need to upgrade one component, it makes sense from short term perspective to squeeze as much as you can.
While you may drink a lot, on a per average basis. The incremental cost is likely to be much lower on an average basis.
I imagine it goes via tiers, so one more is not going to cost them that much more.
Its like apply a OPLOG problem with bottlenecks, as long as you dont need to upgrade one component, it makes sense from short term perspective to squeeze as much as you can.
While you may drink a lot, on a per average basis. The incremental cost is likely to be much lower on an average basis.
So sure, they got "$70" for the upgrade, but but then I didn't have to pay $60 for bags, and I had a couple drinks and bag of chips.
I think they would have seen much greater value (over the $10 they got from me) by upgrading an elite for free.
Or if they'd charged a $200 difference, there's still a reasonable chance I would have paid.
Jul 5, 2017, 4:19 am
#379
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
only had one checked bag, and got a meal on the plane, so I say that was worth $50 right there. The larger seat was bonus!
Jul 5, 2017, 4:23 am
#380
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
I agree, the $50 cost was ridiculously low, but I feel you could optimise the J cabin and fill it up at some midpoint. Maybe $250 each way?
Jul 5, 2017, 12:03 pm
#381
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
We're assuming it costs the airline $25/$50/$60 to actually transport one extra 23kg bag or provide a meal. It doesn't.
But from a business pov, getting these amounts doesn't make sense given the likelihood of getting more from someone else. Plus it does inspire non-elites to upgrade over those who get baggage etc... for free. Odd really.
But from a business pov, getting these amounts doesn't make sense given the likelihood of getting more from someone else. Plus it does inspire non-elites to upgrade over those who get baggage etc... for free. Odd really.
Jul 5, 2017, 2:01 pm
#382
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Posts: 495
I don't believe there was a "reserve" price. I believe they were using this to establish a price for LMU - which in itself is the definition of fraud. If I am right, they should be charged. Let's wait and see how many people have successfully bid on the NA to Europe overnight and been granted a successful bid to business class - if none - AC has a legal problem. btw - check the definition of fraud and you will see I am right.
And while it wouldn't surprise me if they did use these numbers to help tweak LMU pricing, I seriously doubt that they needed to. They should have plenty of data already (from actual LMU offers) that should tell them how to optimize that pricing.
Jul 5, 2017, 2:28 pm
#383
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: SE100K
Posts: 64
For those of you interested in LMU offer: if you are not getting one during OLCI, you can also ask the concierges for this. Not sure if this is only available to SE.
On my recent FRA-YVR, there were J2 1h before departure. No LMU offered during OLCI, upgraded at EUR 959 via Concierge.
On my recent FRA-YVR, there were J2 1h before departure. No LMU offered during OLCI, upgraded at EUR 959 via Concierge.
Jul 5, 2017, 4:52 pm
#384
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
That in turn could allow them to properly assess potential demand at lower prices without actually committing at lower prices, and from there build a pricing strategy for P, eUp copay, LMU, bidding reserve price, etc
Jul 5, 2017, 8:44 pm
#385
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,355
I'm pretty sure that is the logic used by the airline.
So the airline was getting $60 either way, and I gave them an extra $10 for the F seat.
Even ignoring bag fees, I guarantee you will find someone in the gate area willing to pay more than $50 for a transcon upgrade if Y is getting full.
As long as it's priced reasonably, I don't see any issues. But a $70 F upgrade would also piss off whatever diamond member I trumped. I haven't really seen a string of complaints about cheap LMUs denying SEs their eUpgrades, like I've read on AA/UA/DL forums.
Jul 5, 2017, 9:20 pm
#386
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: Only J via Peasant Points, 777HDPeasant or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance and Narcissism.
Posts: 5,957
This just reminds me of a DL flight where I needed to check two bags, and the Y to F difference was $70. Bags would have been $60.
So sure, they got "$70" for the upgrade, but but then I didn't have to pay $60 for bags, and I had a couple drinks and bag of chips.
I think they would have seen much greater value (over the $10 they got from me) by upgrading an elite for free.
Or if they'd charged a $200 difference, there's still a reasonable chance I would have paid.
So sure, they got "$70" for the upgrade, but but then I didn't have to pay $60 for bags, and I had a couple drinks and bag of chips.
I think they would have seen much greater value (over the $10 they got from me) by upgrading an elite for free.
Or if they'd charged a $200 difference, there's still a reasonable chance I would have paid.
Had you performed check-in first, they could have known you were spending 60 for sure, and ask for 130 instead.
Jul 5, 2017, 9:24 pm
#387
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: Only J via Peasant Points, 777HDPeasant or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance and Narcissism.
Posts: 5,957
The answer is yes. But they brought up something that is very interesting. Its call influencing behavior. Where the focus become if this is what is caused the churn, by removing it are we enabling bad behavior? which can hurt us in the LR if client acts in such a way. (Will explain in person next time at a DO about KYC)
I think the same applies here, even at 250 bucks One Way. Its could be bad behavior from business POV that drives a self-fulfilling prophecy that could make J even harder to fill with rev pax overtime.
This may resulting in you not buying a J ticket next time costing up to 1.5K as you are hoping for last minute deal.
Some time I even think if AC prices LMU in such a way thats attempting to drive the message that "You better buy J in advance because you aint getting it for cheap"
But its interesting with their bidding scheme, lets see how they play with this in the LR.
Jul 5, 2017, 9:52 pm
#388
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,355
Are there any legal issues around discriminatory pricing?
Like if they don't just take the top 2 bids, but take a low bid because it's from someone they know wouldn't pay for J, whereas the top bid is someone with a history of paying more?
Or does that only come into play if the discrimination is based on a protected class?
Like if they don't just take the top 2 bids, but take a low bid because it's from someone they know wouldn't pay for J, whereas the top bid is someone with a history of paying more?
Or does that only come into play if the discrimination is based on a protected class?
Jul 6, 2017, 2:27 am
#389
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
I understand that, but what I don't get is how AA and AC can have a factor of 10x difference. Also, if you pay the Y+500 you know well in advance you got the seat, if you wait for an LMU you're risking it. If there was just 1 free seat, I can understand the $500 price, but when multiple seats are empty, wouldn't it make sense to lower the price slightly to fill in the seats? Is there such a large divide that the marginal price drop would have to be too much and hence an overall loss of revenue to fill up one more LMU?
Jul 6, 2017, 9:26 am
#390
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
Are there any legal issues around discriminatory pricing?
Like if they don't just take the top 2 bids, but take a low bid because it's from someone they know wouldn't pay for J, whereas the top bid is someone with a history of paying more?
Or does that only come into play if the discrimination is based on a protected class?
Like if they don't just take the top 2 bids, but take a low bid because it's from someone they know wouldn't pay for J, whereas the top bid is someone with a history of paying more?
Or does that only come into play if the discrimination is based on a protected class?
According to the FTC, it's fine. Especially when it comes to services.
I guess it would explain why you see so much price discrimination in service industries like airline tickets, hotel reservations, and even mortgage rates.
Perfect price discrimination is the supply side utopia. It would look like the airline selling tickets without a price, and people getting only 1 chance to bid for the ticket or they don't get on, and no one knows who is bidding or how much they're bidding, and the airline having full authority on refusing your bid. Sounds familiar?