AC811 Nightmare - Stuck in Turkey for 2 days and still here
Aug 9, 2016, 3:53 pm
#46
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Sorry but you have absolutely no idea what you are speaking about when it comes to alternatives and my stance on them.
All the alternatives would have required me to spend an overnight elsewhere as all flights from Europe going to YYZ were either full or leaving before I would land at next transit point. The only reason I mentioned 'class' was to be able to find an empty seat not because I wanted to travel in luxury.
Please refrain from making assumptions. I was very clear on what took place.
All the alternatives would have required me to spend an overnight elsewhere as all flights from Europe going to YYZ were either full or leaving before I would land at next transit point. The only reason I mentioned 'class' was to be able to find an empty seat not because I wanted to travel in luxury.
Please refrain from making assumptions. I was very clear on what took place.
Not true. Every time he called he was offered something which he found unacceptable. Really wonder how much of the problem here can be attributed to AC vs. user error.
Rule #2 is before you call, identify alternative options with availability that you can offer rather than rely passively on the phone agent to find you something. (Rule #1 being don't stand in any ridiculously long lines. Especially at IST.)
Not in IRROPS. Here OP was offered alternatives each time he called, but rejected them either because it was "inconvenient" or because AC would not book him in a higher class of service.
*A carriers give rerouting preference in IRROPS to *A flights. And will often refuse to rebook on a non-*A flight.
Rule #2 is before you call, identify alternative options with availability that you can offer rather than rely passively on the phone agent to find you something. (Rule #1 being don't stand in any ridiculously long lines. Especially at IST.)
Not in IRROPS. Here OP was offered alternatives each time he called, but rejected them either because it was "inconvenient" or because AC would not book him in a higher class of service.
*A carriers give rerouting preference in IRROPS to *A flights. And will often refuse to rebook on a non-*A flight.
Aug 9, 2016, 4:01 pm
#47
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AC had my email address. I had given it to them on Sunday when I called during the original delay which turned to cancellation.
Its a questionable premise since it pointedly ignores the fact that none of this would be relevant if AC corporate had an easy way to communicate with its own employees/contractors.
As others have pointed out, OP was under the airline's control, and airline staff should have been made aware of the situation while they were booking accommodation.
Instead we have a frankly absurd situation where the airline manages to keep its own staff, who are facing the pax, out of the loop, while informing the TA while the pax is sitting in another country under the control of the airline's staff.
Blaming the OTA and pax is all well and good (albeit questionable given that the reservation was under AC's control at this point), but corporates failure to communicate with its own staff (apparently preferring to bypass them at every opportunity) played a major role in making this delay significantly worse than it should have been.
As others have pointed out, OP was under the airline's control, and airline staff should have been made aware of the situation while they were booking accommodation.
Instead we have a frankly absurd situation where the airline manages to keep its own staff, who are facing the pax, out of the loop, while informing the TA while the pax is sitting in another country under the control of the airline's staff.
Blaming the OTA and pax is all well and good (albeit questionable given that the reservation was under AC's control at this point), but corporates failure to communicate with its own staff (apparently preferring to bypass them at every opportunity) played a major role in making this delay significantly worse than it should have been.
Aug 9, 2016, 4:19 pm
#48
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(For instance the agent might not have gone through the hassle of writing it in the file... Or maybe the agent is not able to enter it at the same location where it would be if you had given it when booking...)
Aug 9, 2016, 4:23 pm
#49
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Sigh. So next time make sure agent tattoos it to their forehead?
I've never had such trouble with any other airline and I've flown all across the world. It honestly is so incompetent it makes me angry. I never get angry.
I've never had such trouble with any other airline and I've flown all across the world. It honestly is so incompetent it makes me angry. I never get angry.
That you gave it does not necessarily mean that they have it.
(For instance the agent might not have gone through the hassle of writing it in the file... Or maybe the agent is not able to enter it at the same location where it would be if you had given it when booking...)
(For instance the agent might not have gone through the hassle of writing it in the file... Or maybe the agent is not able to enter it at the same location where it would be if you had given it when booking...)
Aug 9, 2016, 4:32 pm
#50
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
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I had a simple IAD-YYZ-YYC connection few weeks ago. The first segment was delayed because of a little rain shower ( AC is using small planes on this express routes and apparently can not take off when it's wet) and I missed the second leg even with 2.5 hrs for transit. There were other flights the same evening so I got home just after midnight but ~ 5 hrs later than on an itinerary. There was an earlier connection but the gate agent did not want to deal with it suggesting YYZ would have a better handle. Sure enough they protected us but for the later connect. We were in J so lounge was available and all the pickles you could eat at that time. It took a whole day to get from east to west.
Aug 9, 2016, 4:41 pm
#51
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This said, I would not be sure in similar situations with other airlines, they would fare all that much better. Agents lying through tgheir teeth to make upset customers go away is pretty common. Our daughter and family had a case with WS, connecting to (I think) a Delta flight at LA, where the continuing flight got ccnacelled. They tried their best to hide the fact and keep sending them to LA, knowing full well that they would have to overnight in LA and take the same DL flight one day late. Not clueless and disorganized but downright misleading.
AC has undergone a significant transformation of its economy business over the last couple of years, adding more seats and competing head on with outfits like Air Transat, and lowering lowest fares accordingly. I don't particularly appreciate the new business model, but clearly it has to entail that customers lower their expectations. For better or worse, one can make a case that it is market-driven.
The race to the bottom is driven by the bulk of the flying public and the passionate pursuit of low fares, to the last penny. I like to say that airlines have to make people suffer to make them happy. Otherwise surely they must have overpaid.
Not that I like it. But arguably it is time to adapt to the new reality. Or spend more for premium fares.
Aug 9, 2016, 5:06 pm
#52
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Are you saying the J passengers on this flight were served by the same agents at IST differently? and they got home the same night? AC purchased J tickets on competing carriers?
Aug 9, 2016, 5:25 pm
#53
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Given that most of us have our email addresses on file with the airline or submit it on booking etc, there's no excuse not to use the email address or an SMS during IRROPS, regardless of passenger status. It's not asking AC much to do this as it's a simple IT task, so...oh, wait...never mind.
I'll argue that point. Leaving aside the premium fares option (simply not possible, even if we all wanted to buy such a fare), the "new reality" should not include shoddy logistical work during IRROPS. Delays due to weather, mechanical, crew or aircraft scheduling reasons are common and can be reasonably foreseen. All airlines, especially large, well-connected alliance members such as AC, should be able to invest in contingency plans to efficiently assist ALL their passengers.
I'll reluctantly admit that the new reality in air travel includes squeezed cabin space, numerous add-on fees & charges and watered down loyalty programs, but taking basic care of new and familiar clients has been and should remain the hallmark of any successful service company.
I'll reluctantly admit that the new reality in air travel includes squeezed cabin space, numerous add-on fees & charges and watered down loyalty programs, but taking basic care of new and familiar clients has been and should remain the hallmark of any successful service company.
Aug 9, 2016, 5:37 pm
#54
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Aug 9, 2016, 5:40 pm
#55
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Actually the TA should have included contact information when booking.
This said, I would not be sure in similar situations with other airlines, they would fare all that much better. Agents lying through tgheir teeth to make upset customers go away is pretty common. Our daughter and family had a case with WS, connecting to (I think) a Delta flight at LA, where the continuing flight got ccnacelled. They tried their best to hide the fact and keep sending them to LA, knowing full well that they would have to overnight in LA and take the same DL flight one day late. Not clueless and disorganized but downright misleading.
AC has undergone a significant transformation of its economy business over the last couple of years, adding more seats and competing head on with outfits like Air Transat, and lowering lowest fares accordingly. I don't particularly appreciate the new business model, but clearly it has to entail that customers lower their expectations. For better or worse, one can make a case that it is market-driven.
The race to the bottom is driven by the bulk of the flying public and the passionate pursuit of low fares, to the last penny. I like to say that airlines have to make people suffer to make them happy. Otherwise surely they must have overpaid.
Not that I like it. But arguably it is time to adapt to the new reality. Or spend more for premium fares.
This said, I would not be sure in similar situations with other airlines, they would fare all that much better. Agents lying through tgheir teeth to make upset customers go away is pretty common. Our daughter and family had a case with WS, connecting to (I think) a Delta flight at LA, where the continuing flight got ccnacelled. They tried their best to hide the fact and keep sending them to LA, knowing full well that they would have to overnight in LA and take the same DL flight one day late. Not clueless and disorganized but downright misleading.
AC has undergone a significant transformation of its economy business over the last couple of years, adding more seats and competing head on with outfits like Air Transat, and lowering lowest fares accordingly. I don't particularly appreciate the new business model, but clearly it has to entail that customers lower their expectations. For better or worse, one can make a case that it is market-driven.
The race to the bottom is driven by the bulk of the flying public and the passionate pursuit of low fares, to the last penny. I like to say that airlines have to make people suffer to make them happy. Otherwise surely they must have overpaid.
Not that I like it. But arguably it is time to adapt to the new reality. Or spend more for premium fares.
There isn't a government in the world that won't take a dim view towards the argument that their citizens need to adapt to spending 2 days in a foreign country they had no intention of visiting because the airline thinks the fare they paid was cheap. That's the kind of narrow-minded thinking that's led to the creation of punitive fines for air travel. It would, after all, be patently daft to suggest that cutbacks in safety are justified by low fares. The same applies here regardless of what AC's contract says. If AC needs to raise prices to cope with it (as it would for safety), so be it.
For the record, I've been in similar situations with KL and LH and yes, they do deal with them in a more satisfactory manner.
Aug 9, 2016, 6:08 pm
#56
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Just saying that the money will need to come from somewhere. And it won't be increased competition and lower profits.
Aug 9, 2016, 6:19 pm
#57
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There isn't a government in the world that won't take a dim view towards the argument that their citizens need to adapt to spending 2 days in a foreign country they had no intention of visiting because the airline thinks the fare they paid was cheap. That's the kind of narrow-minded thinking that's led to the creation of punitive fines for air travel. It would, after all, be patently daft to suggest that cutbacks in safety are justified by low fares. The same applies here regardless of what AC's contract says. If AC needs to raise prices to cope with it (as it would for safety), so be it.
Aug 9, 2016, 6:21 pm
#58
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
Posts: 3,357
Are you saying EU carriers have no business in North America or fly empty because they are not competitive?
Aug 9, 2016, 6:29 pm
#59
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Aug 9, 2016, 6:54 pm
#60
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