Back- to-back or not?
Jan 15, 2003 | 1:18 pm
#16
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 3,373
To be more accurate, end-on-end fare construction allows you to build more than one itinerary into a single ticket. Since there is only one series of coupons, there is no nesting.
Nesting is the practice of flying an itinerary after completing the outbound journey, but before completing the inbound journey of a different ticket.
If the nested itinerary takes you back to the point of origin (or a co-terminal) of the first ticket, then that is considered back-to-back. If you go to a third city, then
Nesting is the practice of flying an itinerary after completing the outbound journey, but before completing the inbound journey of a different ticket.
If the nested itinerary takes you back to the point of origin (or a co-terminal) of the first ticket, then that is considered back-to-back. If you go to a third city, then
Jan 15, 2003 | 1:28 pm
#17
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AC*SE:
end-on-end fare construction allows you to build more than one itinerary into a single ticket. Since there is only one series of coupons, there is no nesting.</font>
end-on-end fare construction allows you to build more than one itinerary into a single ticket. Since there is only one series of coupons, there is no nesting.</font>
Jan 15, 2003 | 1:58 pm
#18
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: OGG, YYC, YYZ
Programs: AC
Posts: 3,710
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AC*SE:
Nesting is the practice of flying an itinerary after completing the outbound journey, but before completing the inbound journey of a different ticket.
If the nested itinerary takes you back to the point of origin (or a co-terminal) of the first ticket, then that is considered back-to-back. If you go to a third city, then </font>
Nesting is the practice of flying an itinerary after completing the outbound journey, but before completing the inbound journey of a different ticket.
If the nested itinerary takes you back to the point of origin (or a co-terminal) of the first ticket, then that is considered back-to-back. If you go to a third city, then </font>
The back-to-the-point-of-origin scenario is one for which a need comes up quite often (at least for me) in "real life." Here's the situation: I'm on a vacation - perhaps for 3 weeks - and the need arises for me to return to the point of origin for a short time - perhaps one day (a business emergency). So I buy a return ticket back to the point of origin and, upon return from that trip, resume my vacation.
So that's nesting and back-to-back. Possibly, depending on the fares, it might be considered illegal. (??) But I can't imagine a carrier objecting to this; that would be beyond unreasonable.
Jan 15, 2003 | 2:09 pm
#19
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by After Burner:
Here's the situation: I'm on a vacation - perhaps for 3 weeks - and the need arises for me to return to the point of origin for a short time - perhaps one day (a business emergency). So I buy a return ticket back to the point of origin and, upon return from that trip, resume my vacation.</font>
Here's the situation: I'm on a vacation - perhaps for 3 weeks - and the need arises for me to return to the point of origin for a short time - perhaps one day (a business emergency). So I buy a return ticket back to the point of origin and, upon return from that trip, resume my vacation.</font>
Like I said - if you fly all segments, then you'll most likely be fine. Just don't try and pull back to back stunts by booking thru your friendly TA, they could get in big trouble.
It's when you start combining back to back and throwaway ticket and develops a trend - then you'll raise a flag at YWG for sure.
Jan 15, 2003 | 2:11 pm
#20
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by After Burner:
Here's the situation: I'm on a vacation - perhaps for 3 weeks - and the need arises for me to return to the point of origin for a short time - perhaps one day (a business emergency). So I buy a return ticket back to the point of origin and, upon return from that trip, resume my vacation.</font>
Here's the situation: I'm on a vacation - perhaps for 3 weeks - and the need arises for me to return to the point of origin for a short time - perhaps one day (a business emergency). So I buy a return ticket back to the point of origin and, upon return from that trip, resume my vacation.</font>
Jan 15, 2003 | 2:18 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: AC-E75K, IHG-P, Bonvoy-G
Posts: 1,280
OK so if I understand this.. Using outbound of ticket A and returning home with the outbound of ticket B within the same week (no Saturday) and not using both inbound tickets is illegal. Will destina tell me this if I book through them? If not, how is a person to know and how can this be illegal if THEY are the ones selling it to me in the first place!!?
------------------
Prestige
------------------
Prestige
Jan 15, 2003 | 2:24 pm
#22
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
Well, before you purchase:
I guess it's up to you to find out the tariffs.
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">CARRIER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REFUSE CARRIAGE TO ANY PERSON WHO HAS ACQUIRED A TICKET IN VIOLATION OF APPLICABLE LAW OR CARRIER'S TARIFFS, RULES OR REGULATIONS</font>
Jan 15, 2003 | 2:27 pm
#23
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: OGG, YYC, YYZ
Programs: AC
Posts: 3,710
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Empress:
In theory - AC would expect you to pay a change fee to move up your return date. Then buy another ticket to resume your vacation.</font>
In theory - AC would expect you to pay a change fee to move up your return date. Then buy another ticket to resume your vacation.</font>
Of course the discussion is really somewhat academic. I'll buy whatever tickets I need to travel when and where I need to. It's not my intention to circumvent any rules.
Jan 15, 2003 | 2:34 pm
#24
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by After Burner:
But what if I had not yet satisfied a minimum stay requirement? In that case I wouldn't be permitted to change the ticket.</font>
But what if I had not yet satisfied a minimum stay requirement? In that case I wouldn't be permitted to change the ticket.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">What if I had someone else travelling with me on a companion ticket?</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">What if the final return flight is now oversold, so I wouldn't be able to re-purchase a seat on the flight I'm already on?</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">What if the client who I need to return to visit insists on purchasing me the ticket?</font>
Jan 15, 2003 | 2:34 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: OGG, YYC, YYZ
Programs: AC
Posts: 3,710
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Will destina tell me this if I book through them?</font>
Are you kidding? Destina almost blows a cerebral fuse just by managing to complete a simple booking. Detecting an illegal booking combination would be beyond rocket science for them. Maybe after 100 years of R&D.
Jan 15, 2003 | 4:44 pm
#26
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: YVR
Posts: 9,998
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">It's when you start combining back to back and throwaway ticket and develops a trend - then you'll raise a flag at YWG for sure.</font>
But I don't think RD will last 100 years.
Jan 15, 2003 | 5:05 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chilling with penguins
Posts: 13,050
Just looking into buying tickets the ticket to go home -- someone explain to me why LHRYUL = 700CAD (AC) and LHRYOW = 975CAD (UA) -- AC is > 1000CAD?!? That's bloody murder!
And, does anyone have a clue of the loads on 869 and 848 / 862 in March and April? (I'm obviously trying to get overbooking compensation...)
And, does anyone have a clue of the loads on 869 and 848 / 862 in March and April? (I'm obviously trying to get overbooking compensation...)
Jan 15, 2003 | 5:23 pm
#28
Company Representative - Air Canada
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
Posts: 24,224
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by YOWkid:
someone explain to me why LHRYUL = 700CAD (AC) and LHRYOW = 975CAD (UA) -- AC is > 1000CAD?!? That's bloody murder!</font>
someone explain to me why LHRYUL = 700CAD (AC) and LHRYOW = 975CAD (UA) -- AC is > 1000CAD?!? That's bloody murder!</font>
Jan 15, 2003 | 5:26 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chilling with penguins
Posts: 13,050
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Empress:
Because BA flies LHR-YUL as well.</font>
Because BA flies LHR-YUL as well.</font>
So I guess this is an excellent example of price gauging because of no competition... and I could technically write to Bruce Hood?
Jan 16, 2003 | 1:21 am
#30
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,439
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Empress:
In theory - AC would expect you to pay a change fee to move up your return date. Then buy another ticket to resume your vacation.
Originally posted by After Burner:
Here's the situation: I'm on a vacation - perhaps for 3 weeks - and the need arises for me to return to the point of origin for a short time - perhaps one day (a business emergency). So I buy a return ticket back to the point of origin and, upon return from that trip, resume my vacation.</font>
Here's the situation: I'm on a vacation - perhaps for 3 weeks - and the need arises for me to return to the point of origin for a short time - perhaps one day (a business emergency). So I buy a return ticket back to the point of origin and, upon return from that trip, resume my vacation.</font>
I'm not sure that AC could possibly have anything to object to with this situation...you are not trying to cheat AC out of any revenue with this itinerary and are well within your rights to buy a return ticket from your original destination to your point of origin.
I don't even consider this nesting, since the point of that is to get two return trips to a certain destination for less than you would pay by buying both tix in your home market.