Air Canada Altitude 2016 program for 2017 status
Nov 23, 2015, 1:25 pm
#136
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Bonvoy LTE
Posts: 1,881
I'll never hit $20k AQD... I've already dropped to AC E50K for 2016, after 6 years as SE100K. For 2017 qualification, I'll be moving over to AS/AA. Even $6k spend on AC for E50K is too steep as a USA based AC Altitude member.
It was fun while it lasted. Loved the concierges, especially in YVR.
It was fun while it lasted. Loved the concierges, especially in YVR.
Nov 23, 2015, 1:28 pm
#138
Join Date: May 2015
Location: EXT, sometimes NYC/LON/YQT
Programs: Aeroplan, SPG/Marriott, Radisson Rewards
Posts: 774
I doubt it. That would make it too easy to decide if you want to spend with AC. Giving up valuable testing-the-waters spend.
Nov 23, 2015, 1:31 pm
#139
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
Nov 23, 2015, 1:31 pm
#140
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AC SE; SPG Platnium; HH G
Posts: 551
Actually it will kill it for many FF. Previously 47 segments on AC metal were required so this works out to about $400+ per segment since only AC metal counts.
Nov 23, 2015, 1:32 pm
#142
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Shanghai, Las Vegas, Toronto
Programs: AC -SE, SPG-PLT, HH-G, Natl XcElite
Posts: 111
Although I will have no problems making the cut, the question is 'am I willing to'?
I'm waiting to see what the benefits look like for 2017, and then I'll decide. Lots of international travels coming up for 2016.
That's pretty arrogant for AC, but I'm sure many of us will still fly AC.
I'm waiting to see what the benefits look like for 2017, and then I'll decide. Lots of international travels coming up for 2016.
That's pretty arrogant for AC, but I'm sure many of us will still fly AC.
The only perk SE has that's worth anything to my travel is IKK.... aside from that Super Elite offers me very little extra differentiated value from the other lower tiers.
Until AC lets us know the 2017 SE benefits, I'm okay with dropping out for a year or forever...
Nov 23, 2015, 1:36 pm
#143
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
I like the message the Marriott CEO came out with, it remains to be seen if he's truthful, but in the statement he mentions how integral the loyalty members are and that loyalty programs should be there to encourage more business, not devalue out the others. At least that's how I heard it.
If he's truthful, I think the airlines could all learn a thing or two. Rather than a race to the bottom, why not be a front runner? If one major legacy carrier in the US pumped up their program, don't you think people would gradually flock to it?
If he's truthful, I think the airlines could all learn a thing or two. Rather than a race to the bottom, why not be a front runner? If one major legacy carrier in the US pumped up their program, don't you think people would gradually flock to it?
Nov 23, 2015, 1:36 pm
#144
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC SE*MM, Bonvoy LT Plat, HH Gold, National EE, Sixt Plat, Hz 5*
Posts: 2,441
For me the best SE perks are:
IKK
Concierge
Dedicated SE check in lines
Higher eup/standby priority.
I'm not convinced that those benefits are worth thousands of additional AC spend. If I'm spending it anyway who cares.
Nov 23, 2015, 1:38 pm
#145
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,803
I'm surprised and disappointed about the business of crediting AQD only for AC metal or AC codeshares on AC stock. But I suppose only AC metal and AC codeshares actually generate revenue for AC, so that's what they're aiming at.
One could make that argument every year though, whether the requirement is AQM, AQS or AQD.
Why is $20K so outrageous for SE? There are a lot of benefits that are only available to SEs - concierge, YQ waiver on international flights, IKK at regular prices, etc - so it seems reasonable to me for SE to require a higher cpm than the other levels. Presuming they maintain outsized benefits for SEs, of course.
This is what AC has been implying for a while (the first part of your post). I hope the latter part is true as well.
Revenue multipliers are only for redeemable miles, not for status miles. And who knows, maybe that will be one of the benefits.
rehoult made an interesting post a few weeks ago, and I believe he had suggested that based on conversations with knowledgeable people at AC, 20 cpm was a threshold for them over which they viewed customers as being quite profitable, so I wasn't shocked.
AC reps have talked about wanting to reward their most profitable customers. That's what they're trying to do here.
I guess since why fly and rankourabu are both suspended, someone had to post this, but other than the cpm requirement for SE, this hardly strikes me as being much worse than UA.
^. I believe the AC metal requirements were also written in such a fashion when they were first announced.
This bugs me too. Why not earn AQD for LMU, baggage fees, BOB, etc? It's all revenue for AC.
This is an interesting aspect and I wonder how UA, LH, etc are feeling about this right now. It really does reduce the attractiveness of flights on *A partners.
That's a reasonable point, but it's an issue with segment running in general.
This should be mandatory. Sadly, given AC's IT prowess (or lack thereof), we're probably dreaming.
Re #1: how are the requirements ridiculous? AC wants to reward profitable customers. $20K may be a lot for people on FT min-max to maximise benefits, but for a lot of business travellers buying last-minute tickets or people flying J, $20K will get hit easily.
There will also undoubtedly be some people redirecting business to AC to make sure they meet the AQD requirements.
Re #2: do a lot of those people see much value in being AC FFs anyway though? And how much revenue does AC generate from them? Pretty much only whatever flights they fly on AC metal.
It would be nice if they showed everyone their assumed 2016 spend to see "if" they would qualify for 2017.
My travel is booked all over the place, so it is difficult to capture my actual spend. I am sure I have hit my $20,000 but still
Plus, at least with the US airlines, they do add dollar multipliers for top tiers. No such luck here
My travel is booked all over the place, so it is difficult to capture my actual spend. I am sure I have hit my $20,000 but still
Plus, at least with the US airlines, they do add dollar multipliers for top tiers. No such luck here
At least the changes are consistent with the tenor of previous Altitude enhancements. If you want SE, you'll pretty much have to fly paid J. For middling people like me (Y/PY flyer) the spend requirement is no biggie, and the elimination of the AC metal requirement actually gives me more flexibility in avoiding AC's slaveships when desired.
LMU won't earn AQD, but eUP co-pay will? So you're making it even harder to hit that 20k since SE100 doesn't pay co-pays. For those people who travel on passes this will be easy still. Our YMM-YYT passes are $750 each way roughly. That's only 13 round trips, but living in YVR I doubt I'll get even close.
At least eMCO counts, so if you can get some sweet VDBs that makes it a bit easier.
At least eMCO counts, so if you can get some sweet VDBs that makes it a bit easier.
This seriously complicates planning for global fliers (and their travel agents). As we all know, fares can be substantially different for the same seat marketed by different carriers. Before we needed only worry about the partners' mileage accrual based on fare bucket. Now there's that, plus the AQD dimension.
As well as raising the bar for the short-haulers, this change effectively reduces competition for AC from its own *A partners. Much more than the AC metal requirement, is my instinct.
As well as raising the bar for the short-haulers, this change effectively reduces competition for AC from its own *A partners. Much more than the AC metal requirement, is my instinct.
Someone else also mentioned, why not just go pure spend? Why bother with AQM and AQS.
If I take approx. 25 Flex flights from YYZ-YVR I would likely hit that spend, but unless I connect, I won't hit the AQS. I can hit that spend which is important to AC, why not let me do it without the hassle of connecting?
If I take approx. 25 Flex flights from YYZ-YVR I would likely hit that spend, but unless I connect, I won't hit the AQS. I can hit that spend which is important to AC, why not let me do it without the hassle of connecting?
I REALLY hope they also show you how many AQD you'll earn before purchasing.
I don't wanna purchase a flight in HOPES that it's an AQD earner, because I'm still a bit confused, plus I wanna know how much of my fare is AQD eligible, we pay so much tax in Canada there's a good chance only 60% of your fare even counts.
I wanna see AQM/AQS/AQD broadcast before purchase.
I don't wanna purchase a flight in HOPES that it's an AQD earner, because I'm still a bit confused, plus I wanna know how much of my fare is AQD eligible, we pay so much tax in Canada there's a good chance only 60% of your fare even counts.
I wanna see AQM/AQS/AQD broadcast before purchase.
Thinking about this, it's actually much worse than one may think. $20k spend for 100k AQM already would be quite steep, but given that neither taxes/fees nor most *A flights count, most flyers would be looking at closer to $25k-$30k.
With the drastic SE cutbacks last year, I don't see how any flyer would consider earning SE status a worthwhile goal.
While introducing a minimum spend requirement may make some sense (albeit debatable), I think AC is making two mistakes:
1) One major goal of loyalty programs is to incentivize additional buiness / generate marginal revenue. I guess quite a few SEs make an effort to shift some business to AC and ensure they reach the 100k AQM each year. This group will likely become extinct since the requirements are just ridiculous. Based on the new program most SEs will merely be flyers who happen to earn SE status as a result of flying regularly in Lat/PE/J.
2) I've always thought AC could do a much better job at attracting int'l frequent flyers (e.g. a FFer based in Europe who does 4-5 long-haul flights to Asia/Africa and 5-6 long-haul flights to NA and may decide to choose AC for the latter). These changes pretty much eliminate the int'l customer base (except maybe for a few FFers who "commute" between home and Canada).
With the drastic SE cutbacks last year, I don't see how any flyer would consider earning SE status a worthwhile goal.
While introducing a minimum spend requirement may make some sense (albeit debatable), I think AC is making two mistakes:
1) One major goal of loyalty programs is to incentivize additional buiness / generate marginal revenue. I guess quite a few SEs make an effort to shift some business to AC and ensure they reach the 100k AQM each year. This group will likely become extinct since the requirements are just ridiculous. Based on the new program most SEs will merely be flyers who happen to earn SE status as a result of flying regularly in Lat/PE/J.
2) I've always thought AC could do a much better job at attracting int'l frequent flyers (e.g. a FFer based in Europe who does 4-5 long-haul flights to Asia/Africa and 5-6 long-haul flights to NA and may decide to choose AC for the latter). These changes pretty much eliminate the int'l customer base (except maybe for a few FFers who "commute" between home and Canada).
There will also undoubtedly be some people redirecting business to AC to make sure they meet the AQD requirements.
Re #2: do a lot of those people see much value in being AC FFs anyway though? And how much revenue does AC generate from them? Pretty much only whatever flights they fly on AC metal.
Nov 23, 2015, 1:40 pm
#146
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AC SE; SPG Platnium; HH G
Posts: 551
"The AQD requirement also applies to all members, regardless of residency."
Very interesting.
$20k is a little steep. I spent that in 2014, but not 2015. I think there's a reasonable chance I'll spend it in 2016.
Actually right after writing that, I realized it's all in CAD. If they do another EYW, I'll definitely hit $20k in 2016.
I guess the biggest shock for me is the discrepancy between all the tiers other than SE and SE. 12cpm for everything else, 20cpm for SE.
Also, if I buy a ticket from AC that flies YYZ-LHR-JNB, you only earn AQD on "half" of it.
However, the one thing I will say is that I'm glad this came out now.
We're still waiting to find out what the benefits are in 2016, but we already know the qualification criteria for 2017.
Very interesting.
$20k is a little steep. I spent that in 2014, but not 2015. I think there's a reasonable chance I'll spend it in 2016.
Actually right after writing that, I realized it's all in CAD. If they do another EYW, I'll definitely hit $20k in 2016.
I guess the biggest shock for me is the discrepancy between all the tiers other than SE and SE. 12cpm for everything else, 20cpm for SE.
Also, if I buy a ticket from AC that flies YYZ-LHR-JNB, you only earn AQD on "half" of it.
However, the one thing I will say is that I'm glad this came out now.
We're still waiting to find out what the benefits are in 2016, but we already know the qualification criteria for 2017.
Nov 23, 2015, 1:41 pm
#148
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 12,069
Just received the e-mail, which included various typos and broken links....
Funny thing is that, even though I do plan to retire next month, and my travels thereafter shall be on floatplanes and ferries, I'd still requal as E100K for next year based upon this year's spend and segs. Heck, would even make SE150K on the strength of all-too-frequent multi-segment commuting on Dashes in and out of remote stations.
Maybe the goal of this exercise is to pare the SE ranks down to, I dunno, senators, MPs, and corporate litigators? Certainly not us hard-working colliers, not by half.
Funny thing is that, even though I do plan to retire next month, and my travels thereafter shall be on floatplanes and ferries, I'd still requal as E100K for next year based upon this year's spend and segs. Heck, would even make SE150K on the strength of all-too-frequent multi-segment commuting on Dashes in and out of remote stations.
Maybe the goal of this exercise is to pare the SE ranks down to, I dunno, senators, MPs, and corporate litigators? Certainly not us hard-working colliers, not by half.
Did I miss that ?
Nov 23, 2015, 1:42 pm
#149
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,803
Nov 23, 2015, 1:42 pm
#150
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AC SE; SPG Platnium; HH G
Posts: 551
I think it will for those who have a choice. if i am going to travel every other week i want to be rewarded. this will hurt their loads i expect.