AC flight 624 from Yyz crash landed at YHZ
Mar 29, 2015, 1:11 pm
#212
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Mileage Plus 1K; Marriott Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,355
+1
It would be really interesting to read an estimated cost for installing GPS landing instrumentation on AC's remaining Airbii that lack it.
Would this be less than the hull loss of the incident aircraft? The coming claim settlements from pax who were injured and traumatized? The regulatory proceedings and requirements that will flow from this event?
It would be really interesting to read an estimated cost for installing GPS landing instrumentation on AC's remaining Airbii that lack it.
Would this be less than the hull loss of the incident aircraft? The coming claim settlements from pax who were injured and traumatized? The regulatory proceedings and requirements that will flow from this event?
Mar 29, 2015, 1:20 pm
#213
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
Mar 29, 2015, 1:40 pm
#215
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
+1
It would be really interesting to read an estimated cost for installing GPS landing instrumentation on AC's remaining Airbii that lack it.
Would this be less than the hull loss of the incident aircraft? The coming claim settlements from pax who were injured and traumatized? The regulatory proceedings and requirements that will flow from this event?
It would be really interesting to read an estimated cost for installing GPS landing instrumentation on AC's remaining Airbii that lack it.
Would this be less than the hull loss of the incident aircraft? The coming claim settlements from pax who were injured and traumatized? The regulatory proceedings and requirements that will flow from this event?
Its rather like a minor paint blemish on an old car and worn out engine that you know you're going to be getting rid of in a year or two. Few go running to the body shop for a $3000 re-paint in such circumstance.
As the evidence is shaping up, it appears that either there was some sort of windshear event, or the pilots lacked appropriate vertical guidance in low visibility and did not appropriately exercise their discretion to execute a missed approach.
Mar 29, 2015, 1:41 pm
#216
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9780; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.666 Mobile Safari/534.8+)
CBC: airbags deployed along with oxygen masks.
CBC: airbags deployed along with oxygen masks.
Mar 29, 2015, 1:41 pm
#217
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 25%:DTW/ 50%: LHR/ 25%:DEN
Programs: DL-Gold; BAEC-Newbie Silver
Posts: 128
+1
It would be really interesting to read an estimated cost for installing GPS landing instrumentation on AC's remaining Airbii that lack it.
Would this be less than the hull loss of the incident aircraft? The coming claim settlements from pax who were injured and traumatized? The regulatory proceedings and requirements that will flow from this event?
It would be really interesting to read an estimated cost for installing GPS landing instrumentation on AC's remaining Airbii that lack it.
Would this be less than the hull loss of the incident aircraft? The coming claim settlements from pax who were injured and traumatized? The regulatory proceedings and requirements that will flow from this event?
A - Number of aircraft (w/o GPS)
B - Probable rate of accident (due to lack of GPS)
C - Average out-of-court settlement in each "hard landing"
X - Cost of installing GPS on all remaining AC aircraft
If X < A*B*C, then the bean counters might say no!
p.s: Adapted from "Flight Club," which in turn got it from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_of_negligence
Mar 29, 2015, 1:55 pm
#218
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 1,931
The rumour out there is that the inability to upgrade the very early frames to a GPS-enabled guidance solution and other modern avionics is one of the factors that accelerated AC's decision to order and seek rapid delivery of the 737Max planes rather than run the 320 fleet into the ground.
Mar 29, 2015, 2:08 pm
#219
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Except Getthereitis is actually a thing in aviation.
http://www.flyaoamedia.com/flight-si...-pilot-killer/
http://www.flyaoamedia.com/flight-si...-pilot-killer/
Mar 29, 2015, 2:09 pm
#220
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Mileage Plus 1K; Marriott Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,355
It all (probably) depends on the following:
A - Number of aircraft (w/o GPS)
B - Probable rate of accident (due to lack of GPS)
C - Average out-of-court settlement in each "hard landing"
X - Cost of installing GPS on all remaining AC aircraft
If X < A*B*C, then the bean counters might say no!
p.s: Adapted from "Flight Club," which in turn got it from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_of_negligence
A - Number of aircraft (w/o GPS)
B - Probable rate of accident (due to lack of GPS)
C - Average out-of-court settlement in each "hard landing"
X - Cost of installing GPS on all remaining AC aircraft
If X < A*B*C, then the bean counters might say no!
p.s: Adapted from "Flight Club," which in turn got it from this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_of_negligence
Mar 29, 2015, 2:13 pm
#221
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YHZ. Previously YYC
Posts: 1,924
TSB will hold a news conference today at 6:30pm AST (530pm EST)
CBC Nova Scotia will carry it live on their website.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia
EDIT:
If you click the link above, the first story has a video showing a news conference with Air Canadas VP. WOW, he sure seemed unprepared for that interview.
1st he calls it a crash, then he calls it a hard landing, then he calls it a crash again.
Also...
Reporter: How often does this type of accident happen at Air Canada?
AC VP: You know I'm not certain how often this happens at Air Canada
Like...seriously?
CBC Nova Scotia will carry it live on their website.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia
EDIT:
If you click the link above, the first story has a video showing a news conference with Air Canadas VP. WOW, he sure seemed unprepared for that interview.
1st he calls it a crash, then he calls it a hard landing, then he calls it a crash again.
Also...
Reporter: How often does this type of accident happen at Air Canada?
AC VP: You know I'm not certain how often this happens at Air Canada
Like...seriously?
Last edited by pilotboy1985YYC; Mar 29, 2015 at 2:20 pm
Mar 29, 2015, 2:18 pm
#222
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,544
Not at all. I'll break it down for you as it seems you did not comprehend what was written;
If the emergency services response times are as reported, the staffing and equipment cutbacks at Canada's airports are going to come back to bite the MoT's posterior.
No conclusion made. The definitive word is IF. The issue of response times has been an ongoing issue. CAR 303's legacy has been a major stated concern of Canada's firefighters and airline pilots associations.
It is not a conclusion, but a statement of expectation based upon past events that whenever emergency response times are even remotely raised, a lengthy discussion is held. Here's an example;
On 16 December 1997, barely two weeks after CAR 303 was proclaimed in law, an Air Canada Regional Jet crashed on a foggy night during an aborted landing at Fredericton, New Brunswick, one of the 28 designated airports with mandatory on-site ERS. Although the aircraft was destroyed and several people seriously injured, there were miraculously no fatalities. It took the one airport fire-fighter who was required to be on duty and who was just about to go off shift without a replacement about 15 minutes to locate the aircraft on the airport premises. This prompted numerous questions in the media about the adequacy of the new CAR. Within a week of the accident, the Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs publicized its deep misgivings about the new regulation. Coming just before Christmas, Transport Canada publicly downplayed these concerns.
Sound familiar? The current public reaction is a repeat of the reaction to the Fredericton incident. If the issue of response times is not raised in the coming days, you can criticize me all you want, but I can guarantee you that it will be raised.
As for my comment about the airport's disaster plan not looking too impressive, it was my opinion. Perhaps you see it as a stellar textbook response that should be emulated at other airports. okie dokie. We have different impressions of the response to the event.
If the emergency services response times are as reported, the staffing and equipment cutbacks at Canada's airports are going to come back to bite the MoT's posterior.
No conclusion made. The definitive word is IF. The issue of response times has been an ongoing issue. CAR 303's legacy has been a major stated concern of Canada's firefighters and airline pilots associations.
It is not a conclusion, but a statement of expectation based upon past events that whenever emergency response times are even remotely raised, a lengthy discussion is held. Here's an example;
On 16 December 1997, barely two weeks after CAR 303 was proclaimed in law, an Air Canada Regional Jet crashed on a foggy night during an aborted landing at Fredericton, New Brunswick, one of the 28 designated airports with mandatory on-site ERS. Although the aircraft was destroyed and several people seriously injured, there were miraculously no fatalities. It took the one airport fire-fighter who was required to be on duty and who was just about to go off shift without a replacement about 15 minutes to locate the aircraft on the airport premises. This prompted numerous questions in the media about the adequacy of the new CAR. Within a week of the accident, the Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs publicized its deep misgivings about the new regulation. Coming just before Christmas, Transport Canada publicly downplayed these concerns.
Sound familiar? The current public reaction is a repeat of the reaction to the Fredericton incident. If the issue of response times is not raised in the coming days, you can criticize me all you want, but I can guarantee you that it will be raised.
As for my comment about the airport's disaster plan not looking too impressive, it was my opinion. Perhaps you see it as a stellar textbook response that should be emulated at other airports. okie dokie. We have different impressions of the response to the event.
Public reaction is never measured sane. Media are more and more speculative and less and else reliable. At the moment, the only facts we know as facts is that something happened and a plane went off the runway. A bunch of people were sent to hospital. That's about it.
Eyewitness reports from people on the plane are unreliable, due to probable extreme overreaction and adrenalin, as well as anything said by official sources.
I was going to commend you on a logical statement of not jumping to any conclusions until official TSB reports, end then... poof! It was gone.
Mar 29, 2015, 2:26 pm
#223
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
TSB will hold a news conference today at 6:30pm AST (530pm EST)
CBC Nova Scotia will carry it live on their website.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia
EDIT:
If you click the link above, the first story has a video showing a news conference with Air Canadas VP. WOW, he sure seemed unprepared for that interview.
1st he calls it a crash, then he calls it a hard landing, then he calls it a crash again.
Also...
Reporter: How often does this type of accident happen at Air Canada?
AC VP: You know I'm not certain how often this happens at Air Canada
Like...seriously?
CBC Nova Scotia will carry it live on their website.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia
EDIT:
If you click the link above, the first story has a video showing a news conference with Air Canadas VP. WOW, he sure seemed unprepared for that interview.
1st he calls it a crash, then he calls it a hard landing, then he calls it a crash again.
Also...
Reporter: How often does this type of accident happen at Air Canada?
AC VP: You know I'm not certain how often this happens at Air Canada
Like...seriously?
That was a terrible press conference. For an airline which had just imperiled 138 pax and crew, this guy seemed more annoyed having to talk about it than actually caring to get the right message across. I guess it's the true face of AC management.
CBC's expert says the technical description should be "hard landing resulting in a crash". Not crash landing or "poor landing"
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/nova...ding-1.3014165
However just after that, CBC headlines the event as a crash landing again. Lol
Last edited by FlyerTalker683455; Mar 29, 2015 at 2:54 pm
Mar 29, 2015, 2:41 pm
#225
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
We can debate amongst ourselves whether it was a 'crash', a 'hard landing', a 'runway excursion' or merely an exciting introduction to Nova Scotia. The verbiage doesn't matter: the event will be properly defined as an accident by the TSB.