AC increases YYC-LHR, decreases YEG-LHR for S15
#226
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
It should be noted:
Those FBO numbers for YEG (and other airports that use them) are a lot of double counting of passenger numbers.
The FBO charter passengers are counted as a single passenger arrival or departure but a lot of those people came/went on a scheduled flight from BC or the Maritimes or Central Canada.
Just see where the bus traffic goes when the charter flight deplanes at the FBO terminal.
Those FBO numbers for YEG (and other airports that use them) are a lot of double counting of passenger numbers.
The FBO charter passengers are counted as a single passenger arrival or departure but a lot of those people came/went on a scheduled flight from BC or the Maritimes or Central Canada.
Just see where the bus traffic goes when the charter flight deplanes at the FBO terminal.
#227
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 812
Out of curiosity, why should the FBO "double counting" be noted? What makes the fact that pax are connecting to/from charter flights any different than pax connecting to/from scheduled flights? AFAIK connecting pax are always counted twice; once for arriving and once for departure.
Connecting passengers are not counted as Origin and Destination. This is easy to distinguish because they are on the same ticket.
Since the Northern crowd connect without the same ticket they show up twice.
This then makes a drop in traffic larger than it really is, but then the airport authority claimed the reverse as a big gain when the numbers were climbing.
#228
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YEG
Posts: 3,925
Nope
Connecting passengers are not counted as Origin and Destination. This is easy to distinguish because they are on the same ticket.
Since the Northern crowd connect without the same ticket they show up twice.
This then makes a drop in traffic larger than it really is, but then the airport authority claimed the reverse as a big gain when the numbers were climbing.
Connecting passengers are not counted as Origin and Destination. This is easy to distinguish because they are on the same ticket.
Since the Northern crowd connect without the same ticket they show up twice.
This then makes a drop in traffic larger than it really is, but then the airport authority claimed the reverse as a big gain when the numbers were climbing.
Here are several reports from Canadian airport authorities - you'll notice they're all based on "Enplaned and Deplaned Passengers."
YYC: http://www.yyc.com/Portals/0/MEDIA/M...r_paxtotal.pdf
YEG: http://flyeia.com/sites/default/file...eport_p1_0.pdf
YVR: http://www.yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation...2015.sflb.ashx
YYZ: http://www.torontopearson.com/en/gtaa/statistics/#
#229
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
But, accepting it at face value, that is still a YoY decline of between 20% (min) and 40% (max) Who would you like to blame that on?
I'm going to go with government cuts on travel in YOW - and I expect something similar would have happened in YEG with oil companies. And in both cases, AC walks.
#230
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
But, accepting it at face value, that is still a YoY decline of between 20% (min) and 40% (max) Who would you like to blame that on?
I'm going to go with government cuts on travel in YOW - and I expect something similar would have happened in YEG with oil companies. And in both cases, AC walks.
I'm going to go with government cuts on travel in YOW - and I expect something similar would have happened in YEG with oil companies. And in both cases, AC walks.
Realize YEG is dealing with deep cuts as well but the (relatively) strong O/D numbers to London and the feed from various cities would have kept the route going through Winter with day of week reductions if they were the only game in town. Just my opinion.
#231
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Programs: AC 75K, Hertz President’s Circle, Accor Gold, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 10,071
In response to an Inquiry above, AC resumed LHR flights from YEG in 2007 after having been off the route for a few years.
Last edited by Altaflyer; Mar 19, 2015 at 9:04 am
#232
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
With regard to FI, AC apparently thinks the market will speak in FIs favor. If YEGers valued that YEG LHR flight as much as some folk here contend they should, AC wouldn't have withdrawn.
Leads me to think they don't value that non stop flight as much as AC wants to charge them. FI in, AC out. Market has spoken.
If the market doesn't know what's best for it, who does? AC?
#233
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
Really it is too bad as it no doubt impacts the economy of the city.
#234
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
And then EIAA grease KLM to distort the Market further.
At the end of the day, the Market will prevail. EIAA thinks FI + KLM > AC. They better hope KLM is committed to YEG as EIAA is to KLM.
No one.
Let's see what the Edmonton market (*+ EIAA incentives) compels KLM to do in coming weeks and months.
#235
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YYJ
Posts: 55
EIAA is hardly the first airport authority to provide incentives to new carriers though. Aside from the marketing spat with AC last year over FI, what is suddenly so awful about EIAA providing the subsidies and pursuing new carriers? Why does YEG receive so much flak for it when other airports regularly provide incentives to new airlines too?
#236
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
EIAA is hardly the first airport authority to provide incentives to new carriers though. Aside from the marketing spat with AC last year over FI, what is suddenly so awful about EIAA providing the subsidies and pursuing new carriers? Why does YEG receive so much flak for it when other airports regularly provide incentives to new airlines too?
#237
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YEG - No Particular Loyalty Anymore
Posts: 3,610
AC gets everything it deserves from Edmonton no matter which group gives it flak.
Face it, AC has no interest in anything but treating Edmonton as a 'captive' market. There are no plans for any ex-Canada routes from YEG in the near future if at all and the one sporadic route to LHR is all that I see ever coming from AC.
Thank goodness the EIAA finally woke up to that fact and has provided incentives to other airlines.
Face it, AC has no interest in anything but treating Edmonton as a 'captive' market. There are no plans for any ex-Canada routes from YEG in the near future if at all and the one sporadic route to LHR is all that I see ever coming from AC.
Thank goodness the EIAA finally woke up to that fact and has provided incentives to other airlines.
#238
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
AC gets everything it deserves from Edmonton no matter which group gives it flak.
Face it, AC has no interest in anything but treating Edmonton as a 'captive' market. There are no plans for any ex-Canada routes from YEG in the near future if at all and the one sporadic route to LHR is all that I see ever coming from AC.
Thank goodness the EIAA finally woke up to that fact and has provided incentives to other airlines.
Face it, AC has no interest in anything but treating Edmonton as a 'captive' market. There are no plans for any ex-Canada routes from YEG in the near future if at all and the one sporadic route to LHR is all that I see ever coming from AC.
Thank goodness the EIAA finally woke up to that fact and has provided incentives to other airlines.
FI year round service at lower prices than AC counts for nought. Except for people who who're using it. Who are irrelevant of course.
#239
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
EIAA is hardly the first airport authority to provide incentives to new carriers though. Aside from the marketing spat with AC last year over FI, what is suddenly so awful about EIAA providing the subsidies and pursuing new carriers? Why does YEG receive so much flak for it when other airports regularly provide incentives to new airlines too?
EIAA might have oversold the local market - Felt they deserved more service, went out and made it happen. The local provider said no way and pulled back. EIAA went out and got more service. The local provider pulled back even further. This is a big game of chicken. Sadly, the provider pulling further out of the market is the one playing with their own money and cold, hard returns.
Let's not overthink this - Airlines will fly planes anywhere "better-than-the-next-best-option" returns are guaranteed. Money smells the same whether it’s in the form of paid-J sales or Airport Authority money transfers. “Getting more service” is not the mandate of EIAA or they’d triple the AIF and BA/AF/LH would be fighting for YEG gate space until the subsidies ran out.
I’d like to hear the local view on the mandate of EIAA - What events over the next 12 months would lead to a Successful view of EIAA, What events would be considered a Failure?
Either AC has walked away from profits or EIAA oversold their market or the market is not compatible with AC's offering and higher cost base
FI service + KLM service MINUS the service cuts from AC. The exYEG PAX now connecting through YYC/YYZ are as relevant as the PAX boarding FI
Last edited by CloudsBelow; Mar 19, 2015 at 10:12 am
#240
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
It is a service reduction, less local dollars being pumped in, fewer jobs and often higher airfares due to reduced competition. It also hurts business as freight services are reduced and shipment times increased. Imagine the freight difference between YEGREK and YEGLHR?!
I have no idea what you are arguing as it is illogical.