upgradesecret

It should be noted:
Those FBO numbers for YEG (and other airports that use them) are a lot of double counting of passenger numbers.
The FBO charter passengers are counted as a single passenger arrival or departure but a lot of those people came/went on a scheduled flight from BC or the Maritimes or Central Canada.
Just see where the bus traffic goes when the charter flight deplanes at the FBO terminal.

CloudsBelow

What are EIAA's goals?
Are they going to step to a podium anytime soon and confirm this is all about a 2-week delay and the route will launch May 19? Are they going to grease KLM even harder to make that happen?
Where do they stand on this?
Or, do they only come out in good times to shake hands, write letters about pent up Intercontinental demand exYEG, and pump the efficiency of KEF over other airports in Europe?
This is so true.

Seems some are willing to ride or die with EIAA. I would be FUMING if that happened at my home airport. Seems EIAA can do no wrong .... I wish my business objectives were as easy to hit.

Stranger

Actually, let alone Red Deer, Ft McMurray and whatever there might be to the north, I was wondering how long the three weekly rotations moved to YYC are going to survive, now that one hears daily about job cuts in the oil patch.

Surely AC will need to make some money elsewhere... Or not?

yulred

KL is "sub-par"? The folk who crowned AC as North America's best carrier don't appear to agree. They've ranked KL as 4th in their list of top 10 TATL carriers. AC is ranked...at best, 11th.

KL's J class may well be inferior, but it would take some doing to provide a lower quality Y product than AC. Seeing as most people fly Y (according to cabin sizes anyway), I don't think they're too upset.

Is FI inferior? Sure, if money is no object. In terms of Value-for-money - what one gets for what one pays - it seems to pose a threat to AC, probably on account of AC's Y class not being superior enough to charge the premium AC wants.

I find it's difficult to infer how good or bad a product is without attaching a price / value for money aspect to it.

Dorian

FI is an inferior product. Simple.

If YEG is getting KLM's new J interior it will be on par with AC. If the old J, AC wins.

At no time was I talking about "value for money", just inferior product.

Maybe QR, EK or EY will show up in YEG to spruce things up!?!

Maybe YEG will just become a charter hub??

yulred

They said they're going to start it, but maybe they won't (you seem to think you know more about their plans than they do). Maybe the market has tanked and there's no money there and KL is cutting losses. Does that mean AC will return? Or has it still managed to get elbowed off the route by a sub-par second rate carrier called FI? By your logic, YEG can't support intercontinental travel. Is it wrong that they tried? Or do you believe AC would still be there if FI hadn't entered the market?

For what it's worth, an airline cuts frequencies on long established routes and postpones a new route citing Union issues and deferred deliveries. The conclusion is that the new route has failed. Not sure I follow the logic. What should they have done? Cut even more frequencies on the routes they're established on, and dive in headfirst into a new market? Can't think of many airlines that have done that.

winnipegrev

Sorry, the value for money switches day by day as the fares change with the wind. Customers don't purchase based on value, it is often cheapest dollar. E.g. If FI is the same price as AC but has a 30 min shorter journey time, they may book that without realizing it is food for purchase or narrow 757 seats. Customers are almost NEVER aware of the product they are purchasing, just price. Ask non FF friends how much legroom their last flight had.

They'd better first show up in YYC to make use of the silly 2 A380 gates they are building in the new terminal... a bit optimistic.

Dorian

Comical eh?!

Here is the list of operators from Airbus, who will be the first to fly scheduled service to YYC?

Singapore Airlines
Emirates
Qantas
Air France
Lufthansa
Korean Air
China Southern Airlines
Malaysia Airlines
Thai Airways International (THAI)
British Airways
Asiana Airlines
Qatar Airways
Etihad Airways

jbb

I find it rich that you imply Edmontonian 'boosters' are irrational and brainwashed when all I'm reading from you is polemics and slanted analysis. You cite two months of growth data and draw from that the conclusion that YEG is a 'declining' airport!? Will Edmonton have a tough year in 2015 because of the commodities decline? Highly likely. Will it have another tough year in 2016? I would be skeptical about anyone who has a strong opinion on the price of oil beyond the near term.

An airport's success or failure is measured in years and even decades, not sub-annually. Look at metropolitan areas in North America with 1-1.5 million people. Very few have an airport serving 8 million + passengers or any scheduled transcontinental flights at all: Out of two dozen cities in US/Canada with 1-1.5mn people only Calgary, Honolulu and New Orleans have airports serving more passengers than Edmonton. Notably, Honolulu and New Orleans are major tourist centres while Calgary is a hub airport. The fact that Edmonton is neither a hub or a major tourist centre and has the fourth busiest airport in North America of cities between 1-1.5 million people suggests that YEG punches well above its weight. That to me, is at least one measure of success on the part of EIAA.

Dorian

Well I'm talking about the oil patch....and that impact can only be measured in months. Why would I include a year ago when the tar sands weren't seeing red?


Yes, looks like YEG is going to do well with North American service and very limited oversees flights. All the charter guys will help keep the numbers up for sure.

If the EIAA didn't have their heads in their a*ses AC would still be there as they were and maybe even be expanding...maybe even....wait for it...TPAC. Now they've relegated YEG to an even more irrelevant airport, especially from a business (except maybe oil) perspective.

yulred

Really? AC would still be in YEG?

KL is out apparently because
a) the market is tanking on the back of oil prices
b) there was never any money to be made there, oil money or not.

Which of these two conditions is AC immune to? FI at least has the ability to stimulate traffic with low prices. AC would have cut and run if it couldn't command higher yields, the way they did with YOW-FRA (or was that due to EK or FI?).

There's absolutely nothing to suggest AC would have continued serving YEG if the economic conditions are so bad that KL, with its sixth freedom focus can't support it (for whatever reason you want to attribute - no shortage of speculation on this thread). At least YEG has FI; if EIAA had stuck with AC, they'd probably end up with no intercon flights for winter. Like YOW, which even loses YOW-LHR every now and then - TATL frequency has gone from 10+ weekly to quite a few weeks with 6 weekly.

As for AC's superior J relative to KL, it's a moot point; apparently YEG doesn't have much J traffic according to the wise folk on this thread. Most YEGers fly Y, and AC is pretty easy to beat there.

yulred

Sure. Or they think the cheaper price is better because the product is a reasonable substitute for the AC Y product (which ought to tell you everything you need to know about how superior AC's Y product is).

The solution is simple: Rouge!

CloudsBelow

YEG will decline in 2015 YoY. Is this even up for debate? Lower numbers YoY is the definition of decline, right? Where am I?
Is there an answer more definite than highly likely?
What?
Airport authorities don't induce airlines to fly loss-making routes. EIAA greases TATL competitors so AC take their LHR flight and YEG feed and go elsewhere. They pump their stock and KLM comes in causing AC to pull back further. If the fine people of Edmonton don't make the bookings commensurate with the rosy picture EIAA sold, KLM says "make me whole or we're outta here!". EIAA's job is to know their market demand for air travel. If YEG is left with FI and nothing else this Winter and beyond, EIAA has failed miserably and is squarely to blame. They went all-in with pocket 8s claiming they were Aces and got got.
Seems you're quick to cast doubt and be the MMQB to peoples' opinion/perspective on this thread. What's your opinion? Or, Do you just let's us know what happened once the cards are turned over?
Based on what?

CloudsBelow

Don't get carried away here .... TPAC into YEG?
Can I take the over 20.5 years on that one?

Dorian

Exactly. The kicker here though is they were playing with YEG'ers money, not their own.