JNB and NBO in the works?
Dec 21, 2014, 1:26 pm
#76
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: WS Nothing, AC Something, AS Gold. Too big for 737Max washrooms
Posts: 893
Having done JFK-JNB three times in the last three years the prospect of YYZ-JNB creates a personal dilemma. It means having to decide on the convenience of leaving from Toronto and a 15-16 hour flight in a pod with typical AC food and service versus SAA business class with a nicer lie flat bed, better food and most excellent South African wines and port.
Last edited by Frequentlander; Dec 21, 2014 at 1:27 pm Reason: Typo
Dec 21, 2014, 2:32 pm
#77
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BGI (ex-YYC, YYZ)
Programs: AC*G-E100K (once again)
Posts: 1,701
1) You can earn more AC AQM, which is now required to maintain status (50% minimum requirement). If you go from IAD/JFK you lose a huge chunk of AC miles as the majority of miles from your trip would be SA miles.
2) Skip the border - no need to go through the US border. Big selling point. It's a reason why I don't want to fly via Atlanta on Delta or any US city.
3) Opportunity to exit the airport at LHR and meet people for lunch, etc.
Also I prefer AC's new 787 pods vs. SA's business class seats. However, SA business class seats are better than AC's old pods.
Dec 21, 2014, 3:06 pm
#78
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BGI (ex-YYC, YYZ)
Programs: AC*G-E100K (once again)
Posts: 1,701
Just looking at direct flights between LHR and JNB (BA, VS and SA):
BA A380 : 469
BA B747 : 345
VS A346 : 316
SA A343 : 254
SA A332 : 222
Total daily seats (direct) : 1606
And as a comparison, LHR and YYZ (BA and AC only):
BA B788 : 214
BA B777 : 224
AC B767 : 211
AC A333 : 265
AC B773 : 349
AC B788 : 251
Total daily seats (direct) 1514
Simply a lot of competition.
2) I heard PEK was losing money because they got a bad time/ landing slot which basically misses the majority of the connections. The flight from JNB to PEK (SA288) arrives at 5:05PM in PEK.... so they lose morning and afternoon connections already.
Dec 21, 2014, 4:04 pm
#79
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
June 10 (my random choice)
LHR-JNB
SA 332 - 222
SA 332 - 222
BA 380 - 469
BA 744 - 345
VS 346 - 316
Total n/s seats = 1574
YYZ-LHR
BA 788 - 214
BA 744 - 345
AC 763 - 211
AC 77W - 349
AC 77W - 349
AC 77W - 349
Total n/s seats = 1817
(BA operates a 3rd YYZLHR 777 frequency some days bringing it up to 2041 seats)
If LHR-JNB was such a loss making flight for SA... what's the point of having 2 flights departing within 2 hours of each other? Not much connection benefit there.
Dec 21, 2014, 5:04 pm
#80
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Little dot in Asia
Programs: AA-EP, TK-*G, HL-DM, HY-GLO, MR-LTP
Posts: 25,932
Dec 21, 2014, 5:05 pm
#81
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YOW
Programs: TK*S, SPG Gold
Posts: 714
1) Not surprised that London is a loss leader for SAA due to the huge competition on LHR-JNB route, which has more seats than LHR-YYZ!
Just looking at direct flights between LHR and JNB (BA, VS and SA):
BA A380 : 469
BA B747 : 345
VS A346 : 316
SA A343 : 254
SA A332 : 222
Total daily seats (direct) : 1606
And as a comparison, LHR and YYZ (BA and AC only):
BA B788 : 214
BA B777 : 224
AC B767 : 211
AC A333 : 265
AC B773 : 349
AC B788 : 251
Total daily seats (direct) 1514
Simply a lot of competition.
2) I heard PEK was losing money because they got a bad time/ landing slot which basically misses the majority of the connections. The flight from JNB to PEK (SA288) arrives at 5:05PM in PEK.... so they lose morning and afternoon connections already.
Just looking at direct flights between LHR and JNB (BA, VS and SA):
BA A380 : 469
BA B747 : 345
VS A346 : 316
SA A343 : 254
SA A332 : 222
Total daily seats (direct) : 1606
And as a comparison, LHR and YYZ (BA and AC only):
BA B788 : 214
BA B777 : 224
AC B767 : 211
AC A333 : 265
AC B773 : 349
AC B788 : 251
Total daily seats (direct) 1514
Simply a lot of competition.
2) I heard PEK was losing money because they got a bad time/ landing slot which basically misses the majority of the connections. The flight from JNB to PEK (SA288) arrives at 5:05PM in PEK.... so they lose morning and afternoon connections already.
Dec 21, 2014, 5:09 pm
#82
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: BGI (ex-YYC, YYZ)
Programs: AC*G-E100K (once again)
Posts: 1,701
Not sure, but I've been on a LHR-JNB flight by SA where economy was only like 50% full.
SAA has been known to keep planes flying on routes even if not full / loss making. There's a lot of political pressure for them to do so. Many examples of that:
- http://www.bdlive.co.za/business/tra...ends-argentina
Dec 22, 2014, 5:17 am
#83
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Even though the SAA food, offerings and service is fantastic, I'd rather fly YYZ-LHR-JNB instead of YYZ-IAD/JFK-JNB because:-
1) You can earn more AC AQM, which is now required to maintain status (50% minimum requirement). If you go from IAD/JFK you lose a huge chunk of AC miles as the majority of miles from your trip would be SA miles.
2) Skip the border - no need to go through the US border. Big selling point. It's a reason why I don't want to fly via Atlanta on Delta or any US city.
3) Opportunity to exit the airport at LHR and meet people for lunch, etc.
Also I prefer AC's new 787 pods vs. SA's business class seats. However, SA business class seats are better than AC's old pods.
1) You can earn more AC AQM, which is now required to maintain status (50% minimum requirement). If you go from IAD/JFK you lose a huge chunk of AC miles as the majority of miles from your trip would be SA miles.
2) Skip the border - no need to go through the US border. Big selling point. It's a reason why I don't want to fly via Atlanta on Delta or any US city.
3) Opportunity to exit the airport at LHR and meet people for lunch, etc.
Also I prefer AC's new 787 pods vs. SA's business class seats. However, SA business class seats are better than AC's old pods.
Dec 22, 2014, 8:14 am
#84
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
SAA serving YYZ is a very long shot in my opinion.
SAA serving YYZ nonstop while electing to tech stop enroute to NYC and IAD would be absurd.